The truth about maintaining a world class Opera career and family with Lucas Meachem

Michelle Lynne: Hey, everybody, and welcome back to The Fearless Artist Podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Lin, and today I’m very honored to have Lucas Meachem on. Welcome, Lucas.

Lucas Meachem: Thanks.

Michelle Lynne: Thanks.

Lucas Meachem: As well, though. I feel that word is way overused, especially in social—

Michelle Lynne: Oh.

Lucas Meachem: —could jump right in.

Michelle Lynne: Well, I truly was honored, but, but we can, I can say—

Lucas Meachem: you.

Michelle Lynne: I can say I’m excited and thrilled and anticipating this conversation, ’cause my staff, my TFA staff, is fangirling over this. They were like, “Oh my God! He said yes, he’s coming on!” They were so… like, our group chat exploded when you said yes. So.

Lucas Meachem: Only they knew how easy it was to get me. I am a yes guy. I love doing—like, literally people write me on Instagram or anywhere, and I’m just like, and I send them little voicemail. I have voice messages going with like five people right now that are just like, “Oh, how do I sing a high G?” and “I’m working on this,” and if you send me stuff, I will send you stuff back. So I’m, I’m easy to get.

Michelle Lynne: How, how do you make time for this if, when you have such a huge following and you’re singing in the biggest halls in the world and, like, you’re just giving coachings on your Instagram DMs?

Lucas Meachem: Ah, that’s a great question. I don’t even think of it as making time. I think of it as I got so much help when I was coming up from like the generation before me that I can only think that there’s… I could never repay the people that, that have helped me so much. And so, the, it doesn’t feel like work at all to me. It just feels like, go do what you should do, which is get back to the generation uh, that, that’s coming up.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah. That’s amazing. I mean, I mean, I saw your, I saw your Wikipedia. Is it true that you were discovered in a karaoke bar? I think that’s what I gotta know.

Lucas Meachem: Uh, you know, it’s kind—

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Lucas Meachem: That’s the perfect analogy for social media is that I was discovered in a karaoke bar.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: You know, what you see is not reality is not social media, you know?

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Lucas Meachem: I was discovered in a karaoke bar about 10 years after beginning to study opera and singing, and you know, having gone through eight years of university, two years of, uh, a, a young artist program at San Francisco Opera, then I was discovered. You’re right.

Michelle Lynne: That’s hilarious. But you know what, like, we always need those little catch phrase from the marketing story, right? So I just thought it was so funny that that’s.

Lucas Meachem: That karaoke story is evergreen, and I’ll tell you, if you ask.

Michelle Lynne: Okay. Speaking of the social media, if you wanna start with like the, the online presence, that’s how we found you. And I think I, I shared this with you already, but we’ve been using your um, socials as an example in the entrepreneurship class that I taught at university because you’re so open with your audience and building a fan base, and you’ve got the, the vlogs and you show your life and your family and your beautiful wife. So I would just love to maybe start there, like, why, when you have this career, this amazing career with like the biggest halls and the prestige and the roles and the preparation that goes, and still you’re letting people in. So I think that’s, that’s really interesting for us.

Lucas Meachem: Well, thanks for saying all those nice things because success—

Michelle Lynne: This season alone, you’re at, you’re right now you’re in Florence. You’re opening L’Opéra de Demain tomorrow.

Lucas Meachem: Yes.

Michelle Lynne: Yes. Um.

Lucas Meachem: I, I am tomorrow opening, uh, Pearl Fishers, and, uh,

Michelle Lynne: And then you’re gonna be, you know, Barcelona and New York this season and it just.

Lucas Meachem: It, it is great. It’s so funny though because it’s, it’s, so much work and effort to build a career, and to not just build it, but to maintain a career, that the maintenance never feels like success. And so from the outside looking in, I am, I guess, successful. I have, I am currently succeeding, but I have so much more that I want to accomplish. And what, what I, I’ve talked with some really dear friends about this who, who have the same, is that the, the, the amount of grind and effort it takes to get here, and the amount of the work ethic that you build to be able to make a career in opera, can’t put that down once you have, quote unquote, began, begun to make it. It’s like, it, it never goes away. I still have such ambitions that I feel like I’m still getting started inside of me. I’m like, “Okay, well, now I’m singing here, but I know I need to do these roles.” And now, and, and now that the world has opened up for me, it’s like, “Oh my God, I have, I, I’m, I’m a baby in this world.” And so in a way, it’s a good thing and it’s a way, it’s, it’s tough because you should appreciate how far you’ve come while also having ambition for achieving more in the future. And I’m trying to walk that tightrope and it’s, it’s not… I don’t always succeed, uh, but I think, I think what, what, what you’re feeling in my social media is simply the fact that I’m not trying to be anything on social media other than authentic. That is, that is the secret recipe for social media is authenticity. And you can feel fakeness, you can feel somebody gr—you know, grubbing for, for likes and for views and for, for followship. I, I didn’t set out to become anything on social media other than myself and maybe try and help some people along the way, and, and if I had something to give back, I wanted to give it back because I have a feeling of, of gaining so much from those who came before me, like I said earlier, that I just want to help those that I can. And, uh, I don’t wanna make money. I don’t make money. I mean, even, even the books that the, that, that we sell, it’s, it’s negligible. You know, it’s like, it’s all about the, the just putting it back out there. And I’m one of those believers that it comes back to you if you put yourself in and love out there, it somehow finds its way back.

Michelle Lynne: That’s so beautiful and I appreciate so much of what you just said. Can you talk more about the, the level of effort it takes to maintain where you’re at? Because there’s supposed to be this idea that, you know, it takes so much to start up, but once you get there, you can manage it. But you’re saying, “No, it’s still costing you to maintain this level.”

Lucas Meachem: I’ll say this: I have never worked harder in my career than I do right this second.

Michelle Lynne: Wow.

Lucas Meachem: Never. Never. I mean, just, I was just singing a world premiere at La Scala and it was the hardest I’ve ever worked in my career. It was a, it was a world premiere. It was, it was a experience, but a big, very difficult experience as well. And there are just so many obstacles and hurdles because the thing is, the more you learn, the more you’re able to sort of move forward in the career. And you’re like, “Okay, I’m, I’m feeling very good in this.” And then, you move up, uh, another level and all of a sudden there are new hurdles that you have to learn how to deal with. So there’s hurdles at every level. And, uh, I mean, it’s this, this joke that everyone knows that’s, uh, you know, the four stages of, uh, any career, but an operatic career is, uh, “Who’s Lucas Meachem?” And then they say, “Hit me, Lucas Meachem.” And then the third stage is, “We’ve got Lucas Meachem.” And then the fourth is, “Who’s Lucas Meachem?” So it’s, it’s the, you know, those, those really are the four stages of this. And so you kind of, knowing that’s coming, knowing that is part of the deal, you just wanna stay relevant in some way as long as you can.

Michelle Lynne: Hmm.

Lucas Meachem: That the harder I work and the more prepared I am, and the more I show up ready to do a good job, the, the more relevant I can be.

Michelle Lynne: How have you learned to improve the hard work? Because you’ve, you’ve worked hard your entire career up to now, so what has changed in your method, your preparation, your intention when you show up?

Lucas Meachem: An understanding of what this career… I mean, I don’t wanna say I, I know what this career is about, but I know a lot more than I used to. I used to ignorantly think that best singer wins. And the thing is, you do have to be the best singer you can possibly be. But there are so many other factors that I never would’ve considered, uh, when I was younger. When I was starting out, I just thought, “I’m just gonna be the best singer and I will succeed.” And it is just that simple. And there are so many more details. I mean, we could get into it a little bit, but you can’t even, you can’t even list them all. And, and, and however long this podcast is gonna be, there’s just a lot more details that people care about. I, I’ll give just a quick example, or not even example, just a quick piece of advice is that if you look at your career through or what you want through the eyes of the casting director, I think you’ll find more success in getting what you want.

Michelle Lynne: Oh, that’s interesting. Like tailoring the messaging for who the audience is.

Lucas Meachem: Who the audience that is going to pay your bills is.

Michelle Lynne: Right, right.

Lucas Meachem: Not the public.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: Because I, I, I’ve seen people not do well with the public and then saying, have very big careers at certain opera houses.

Michelle Lynne: Mm.

Lucas Meachem: And, and not even sing, not even be the best singers, but it’s, uh, like anything, relationships are so important.

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Lucas Meachem: You don’t have to be everything to everyone. You have to be really liked by six to 10 houses and you can have a major career that way.

Michelle Lynne: Oh, that’s nice. That’s interesting. What’s, what’s one of the most surprising things, looking back when you were a student? You’re saying back then you thought, “I just need to be the best.” And now you’re saying there were so many more pieces. What was the one that really surprised you?

Lucas Meachem: Well, back in the day when I started, it was six pack abs.

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Lucas Meachem: Like to be a baritone, you just needed a six pack and you were gonna take your shirt off. And, uh, that, that, that always surprised me. I mean, I was never outta shape, but I was never like six pack in shape and I thought, “Well, I, that’s okay because I, I sing better than some of those baritones that have six pack abs.” So that will be fine. And ultimately, it has turned out to be fine. And I have weathered the storm of the six pack, and, uh, back in the day uh. Anyway, but that, that, that was something that I had to overcome, but I had to realize it existed to, in order to overcome it, you know, or in order to play that game, you—

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: —had to, you know, do a hundred pushups a day for a few weeks and see where we’re at when I have to do Don Giovanni and, and be shirtless. You know, it’s like learn the game so that you can play the game. And, and that doesn’t mean playing the game. It means knowing the game and playing your own game that might help you to get to where you want to be.

Michelle Lynne: Kinda like knowing the enemy a bit too. Like what are you up against?

Lucas Meachem: The enemy of my enemy is my, my friend. You know, it’s like, yeah. So what, what, what does that make a six pack? The enemy of six packs is donuts. So donuts are my friend. That’s what—

Michelle Lynne: I love this. I love this analogy when you say being aware of what the casting director wants, but then you also said authenticity is one of your core values. That’s what you’re showing on ins—on Instagram, on your socials. How did you navigate that? Being aware of what the person listening to you wants and needs, and still staying your true artistic self.

Lucas Meachem: They’re completely different things. Social media. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I see people have careers because of social media. I, I, I, I think that era might be not coming to an end, but there’s, there’s not the day where, you know, like Joyce DiDonato, they say they sold, she sold out Carnegie Hall with a tweet. You know, it’s like, like I, I think that that time is sort of in the past. However, social media, I’m not saying social media is, is—social media is absolutely the future, for sure. But, um, if I have a huge social media presence and I go into rehearsal unprepared and I show up late and I don’t sing well, I’m not going back to that company.

Michelle Lynne: Right.

Lucas Meachem: Likely, very, very likely. You know, so there are certain professional things that you have to have just as a normal, you know, uh, which is, you know, show up on time, know your music, be a good, decent person to your cast and colleagues, and, uh. I mean, that’s, that’s, you could, you could apply that to any, any professional setting. Then social media in addition to that, can be a—I think of it more of a supplement at this point. But again, I didn’t mean to, I didn’t mean to, to have followers and, and I still, I don’t even know how many followers I have. That’s how I, I am into helping people if I can. And if they like it, then great. But I think again, what they like is not even always the message, it’s the fact that I’m just being me doing it.

Michelle Lynne: Right.

Lucas Meachem: Like, I think you’re probably picking up on that now. I, I mean, we, we talked for like 15 minutes before this about life and all sorts of stuff, and it’s just, I don’t know. I’m, well, well, when I meet people that are kind and reciprocate that sort of energy, I really do enjoy just chatting. So—

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: This is great.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah, that’s, that’s amazing. And I also so appreciate, uh, the humility and the character that comes through when, when people meet. Um, but going back to the authentic side, like removing the social media aspect, but just, you know, taking that out of the equation. As a performer, and you know what they’re looking for. How do you navigate staying true to how you would show up on stage, regardless of if you knew that information? Do you know what I mean?

Lucas Meachem: I know exactly what you mean and I mean, this is an even deeper question, you know, ’cause it’s, it’s—

Michelle Lynne: I.

Lucas Meachem: We could talk about authentically performing or being an authentic performer, but before you can even be an authentic performer, you have to be an authentic human. And, uh, so it really, before you can do any of that, you have to look inward and at least be able to, to, to think and dare I say, judge—I think judge is probably not the right word to use—but at least be able to honestly look inside of yourself and judge or judge again. Judge, yes. Evaluate is a much better way. Thank you for, for feeding that, um, to evaluate what’s going on in the moment, what’s going on in the room. How am I coming off? Because I mean, in, in my twenties I was all about, “Yes, Maestro! Yes, Director! Let’s just throw ourselves out there too much all the time.” Lucas reigned in. In my thirties, I was a little defensive. “I know what I’m doing now. I’m ready to go out there. No, let me take charge. Let me do this. And sorry if you don’t like this, I’m not gonna…” I was, I was a little combative. In my forties, I’m back to, “Yes, Maestro, but, but would you mind if we possibly tried it this way?” You know, it’s like you have to sort of like, can’t have any rough edges.

Michelle Lynne: Hmm.

Lucas Meachem: To, you, you can’t have too many rough edges. You really need to, to, to learn how to get what you need in a kind, thoughtful, and, uh, professional manner, manner, and, um, I don’t know. I’m kind of bouncing all over the place.

Michelle Lynne: No, I love this because, yeah, no, just about being authentic. When, when we are performers and we know, you know, you were talking about getting the role or being invited back and it’s because you, you started thinking more what the casting director wants. So my question, knowing like, how you appear online is very authentic. So I’m assuming that’s one of your core values is authenticity or even how we started this conversation is just very open and relatable from the beginning. So just wondering like how do you navigate that in this professional setting, in these, in these big halls like the—

Lucas Meachem: It’s a, it’s a very difficult question because I talk about authenticity. I, I start to think about the ways that I am inauthentic in a professional setting. ‘Cause in social media, I am, try to be very authentic. In the opera building, you cannot be authentically yourself 100%.

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Lucas Meachem: You can go on stage and try and lend your authenticity to a moment on stage as a character and whatnot. But you, you, authenticity has actually been my enemy for a lot of my career, gotten in, in, because an opera career is international. If, if, if you succeed, you, you’ve got international opera career. I mean, there are American careers, there are European careers, there are German careers, there are Austrian careers. There are, there are careers in, in many different facets. But I’d say that the biggest careers are the ones that end up being, uh, international and um. If that’s what you’re searching to do, you do need to understand that they look on, uh, at least the American identity as being a little too much, a little too smiley, a little too out there. And that was something I had to learn in a bit of a difficult way. Even the first time I worked in Europe was in Germany and uh, and I got the feeling that my southern charm did not hit in the way it does in the South, especially. So I actually act a little bit differently in Europe and even in different countries. I will act a little bit differently in rehearsal, in the rehearsal process, and—

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: My friends are my friends. My friends get me.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: As soon as I walk into an opera house, I’m wearing a nice shirt. I, I walk in, not myself. If I were myself, I’d be wearing cut off jeans and like a used Jägermeister t-shirt, you know, which is—

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: —my wear back when I was in school, you know. But for me, it’s like you have to look a certain way. You have to present yourself for a certain way, and you dress for the job you want. So when you go into a house in Europe, you just can’t quite be the same exact person that you are at home. If—

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Lucas Meachem: —the opera house, you’re there to work. You know, it’s, it’s the same, you know, if you worked at a, at a law firm or at a, as a, as a professor, you’re not going in there, you know, with a bowl of Cheerios and saying, “What’s up, peeps? Let’s, uh, let’s learn about some quantum physics today.” You know, it’s like you go in there with a certain, a certain aura, a certain air about yourself, that you’re a professional person who takes the himself seriously. And so yes, authenticity helps to a point. And I think you need to divide the social media authenticity from the professional setting in the rehearsal space and and your dressing room and backstage authenticity.

Michelle Lynne: But some people are using their socials in that way, the second way that you’re describing, where they are very serious and they don’t let people come past the wall of professionalism, let’s say. And I think that’s why we were so drawn to you, especially showing as examples of your vlogs or just like you let us in. Like, you know, you’ve got you wife and your son and he’s running backstage and you’re showing your costume changes and you’re showing your warmup, and you’re showing, you know, even your process of learning a brand new role in four months, I think, was one of your videos. And I was like, “This is so cool. Like, you’re letting us in.” And that’s not something everyone does. So I’d be curious to know, like you mentioned, wanting to help others. Is there anything else behind this?

Lucas Meachem: Well, I, I think it’s kinda old school to, to be the, the wrapped up artist who’s not gonna let people in. ‘Cause social media takes down the barrier for us. I can write to Renée Fleming, you know, and I mean, she’s not gonna get it, but you know, her social media team will get it and maybe she’ll be, “Hey, Lucas wrote you,” and, but I mean. You know, it’s like you do feel like you have access to people that you’ve never had before. You know, even backstage at the Met, some people would slip out the, the, the crew door, you know, and so it’s like, you know, it, it’s, it’s just a different world. Social media has completely leveled the playing field and made stars, opera stars more accessible to—

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lucas Meachem: —in a way that’s a good thing and a bad thing. And it actually sort of goes back to the authenticity in Europe thing that I had. It’s like the, the, the whole Maria Callas sort of, you know, thing and, “I’m not going to speak.” And, you know, it’s like this, even the way people acted back then. Like I, I’ll watch, uh, uh, recordings of famous, you know, Italian baritones and they’ll, and they really just stand and sing, and they mean everything in the voice. But these days it’s just a little bit more, you know, there’s a little more physicality to the acting, a little more, I guess they would consider it overdone, where now we would consider them to be stoic and, and, and underdone and, uh, but again, you can, you can, you can choose to label that as a positive or negative thing. You know, if I called the, the way they did stoic, it sounds nice. If I call it boring, it’s not nice. If I call ours overdone or, or, uh, you know, overacting, or I could call it, you know, “Wow! He really physicalized those emotions.” You know, it’s like, you know, so, and it’s, it’s potato, potato, but because social media opens things up, I am, I’m just, I’m kind of an open guy myself. I’m from the south. My mom loves to talk to people. My dad’s a really cool dude, and he is like, so, I don’t know. I have, I, I, I don’t fall far from my parents’ tree and they were really open people, and so, I don’t know. I just, social media, it’s mine. I get to have it. I get to do what I want with it, right? So I’m gonna be open. I’m gonna be, I’m gonna give back if I can.

Michelle Lynne: That’s beautiful. Um, I’d love for you to talk more about this culture thing where you’re saying, you know, being an American in Germany, or I mean, how have you, what’s, you know, what’s the Italian version of Lucas right now? How are you acting in rehearsals? Are you a bit more fiery when you’re giving feedback or are you, you know, I know you’re eating great pasta.

Lucas Meachem: I am, I am. I had pasta for dinner, as a matter of—

Michelle Lynne: Yes.

Lucas Meachem: No, I, I think if you keep it classy at all moments, if there’s a moment you think, “Am I overdoing it? Am I being too much?” instead, “Am I keeping it classy?” Because that’s the most important thing, and that, that, that, that has really served me well in these particular settings of, of expectations, you know, because they do have certain expectations. And when I’m asked, “Where are you from?” uh, and they don’t assume America, and if they don’t know me, then I think I’ve done my job.

Michelle Lynne: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Lucas Meachem: So, yeah, I, I just, less is more. Less is more. If you’re an American listening to this, which who knows? Maybe you are, maybe you’re not, but less is more in Europe.

Michelle Lynne: I’ve learned that also a couple times the hard way, being in my smiley Canadian self, coming over here to the, the Netherlands where I’m based. And sometimes they’re just like, “We don’t get it.” You know, you, um, just this kind of instant best friend connection that you can have with someone. They’re like, “Friendships take a lot longer over here to kind of get to know people and trust, but then once you’re in, you’re really in and you become kind of one of the core circles.” So I had to learn to navigate that. It’s been, it’s been interesting. Um, how do you find the audiences with all of these concerts internationally, like you’re saying, or do you notice a difference with the people and the responses?

Lucas Meachem: Yeah. I mean, there, I, yeah, absolutely. Uh, I mean, I think the American audiences, for the most part, the applause gets louder towards the last bow.

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Lucas Meachem: And, uh, and that, that will happen sometimes in Europe. But, uh, that’s what’s nice is when, I mean, let’s, let’s talk about what is nice, is what, what I find nice is if there’s, um, I’ll give an example that I had. I was at the Met and I watched Porgy and Bess. That was years ago, but the strawberry man, he was, he was like, I don’t know what the name of the role. He was selling strawberries, the most beautiful baritone voice. And I, when he came to bow, I was like, “Strawberry man!” And I’m like, you know, I love it when people can hear that sings and, and says, “Oh man, they might not have a big role yet. That means they’re young. That means they’re up and coming. Let’s encourage them because, God, what a talent that was.” But it’s because people have lost the ability to tell that that’s a talent because people, people, I, I, well, this is, this is getting a little deeper than maybe we want, but I find that people these days, they listen and they taste with their eyes. I think this is a product of social media.

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Lucas Meachem: And, and the time that we live in. So if they, you go to a restaurant and all the waiters are dressed really nicely in a hip style and they serve these beautiful plates full of food. And the, it’s, there’s it’s art on the plate, and it tastes kind of good, but not great. It’s great because it looked great. But if you go to a restaurant that’s got, you know, chicken wire and you’re sitting at, you know, bar stools and everything, and you taste something that’s by a chef who’s really good in the back and you’re like, “Oh my God, that knocked my socks off!” It is just good because of the setting, because we’re eating with our eyes. It’s the same thing when we’re listening to opera many times, that if somebody looks impressive, then they must sound impressive.

Michelle Lynne: Mm.

Lucas Meachem: And it is just not the way of the world right now. It’s, it’s, it’s, and so you have a small percentage of the audience know what they’re listening for and another percentage of the audience, a much larger percentage. It’s like, “Good for them. They did that really well. And look at, yay! That was, that was, wait, we, and we paid a lot of money for these seats, so it has to be good.” So it’s, it’s a, there’s a bit of a disconnect right now. I mean, it’s probably been this way for a long time, if I’m being honest. You know, the people that really know, you know, the voices that are the next big things. But, um, I feel like the disconnect’s a little bigger these days than it, than it has been in the past.

Michelle Lynne: So why are there so few who know what they’re listening for and how do we get more of them? Is it an education question? Is it, as you’re saying, we have too much visuals in front of us all the time on the phone? Like where is this coming from?

Lucas Meachem: It’s probably a few things. I mean, I don’t want to act like some guru that knows all this, but I do know that instant gratification, uh, is a, uh, I feel it myself when I’m looking at reels. I’m like, “All right, well, I saw it for that.” Or if somebody on social media says, “Hey guys, thanks for…” I’m like, “Swoop!” You know, get into it! You know? But that’s, that’s the moment that we’re living in. It’s like—

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: —like, “What’s up, guys? What’s up, team? What’s up?” I’m like, “No!” It’s like, “Just start talking!” Like, it literally, and even if I say that, I’ll cut that part out.

Michelle Lynne: Yes.

Lucas Meachem: It’s all it is is saying, “Am I gonna be good at this? Am I gonna, is this gonna be a good take?”

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Lucas Meachem: I hear when I hear people say that, “Is this gonna be a good take?” And so this instant gratification thing, it’s part of, in my opinion, this, this, this idea. But again, now the more I think about it, it’s, it’s not anything so new.

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Lucas Meachem: But I think especially in America, we, we are, we have moved into a direction of, of trying to put on stage something that we think the audience will approve of before it. It is talented before it gets on stage. We’re trying to, we’re trying to say something before the art has said something. “Look at what we’ve done! Look at the show we’re doing! Look at the cast we have! Oh, it’s so diverse!” It’s so whatever it is, you can add in buzzwords here and there. And so they get to sell that on social media and they get to sell that in the media, and before it’s open, “Oh, it’s gonna be a success, ’cause look how—”

Michelle Lynne: So much stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: And it hasn’t even opened and the people haven’t even sung and it’s buzzword great. Or you can go see the show that they’re doing after that show. And maybe it’s a better show. Maybe it’s got better singers. So again, this, of course, I’m, I’ve always liked to wish that best singer could win because I really think that’s what opera should be about. His best singer, best singer for the role, that role, you know, and, and. There’s some really great singers right now. You know, I’m not one of these people that thinks all the golden age singers were then and there’s nothing now. I think, I think if anything, you know, we’re at least a match for the golden age singers right now. And they didn’t have to deal with all this pressure, all the social media pressure. ‘Cause it’s a lot. It’s a lot to, to have. It’s a bit of a, a, a monster actually, because now it’s not just what you did that night in the theater, it’s, it’s, “Then what are you saying afterwards? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, fine. He’s saying, uh, uh, ‘Ton.’ Sure, he did that. But what does he have to say about it tomorrow when he is eating his breakfast and his coffee and his espresso, and is he going to Café

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can you remove any bold texts, just leave the speaker names… can you do the whole transcript please.

Just a sec…

Michelle Lynne: Hey, everybody, and welcome back to The Fearless Artist Podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Lin, and today I’m very honored to have Lucas Meachem on. Welcome, Lucas.

Lucas Meachem: Thanks.

Michelle Lynne: Thanks.

Lucas Meachem: As well, though. I feel that word is way overused, especially in social—

Michelle Lynne: Oh.

Lucas Meachem: —could jump right in.

Michelle Lynne: Well, I truly was honored, but, but we can, I can say—

Lucas Meachem: you.

Michelle Lynne: I can say I’m excited and thrilled and anticipating this conversation, ’cause my staff, my TFA staff, is fangirling over this. They were like, “Oh my God! He said yes, he’s coming on!” They were so… like, our group chat exploded when you said yes. So.

Lucas Meachem: Only they knew how easy it was to get me. I am a yes guy. I love doing—like, literally people write me on Instagram or anywhere, and I’m just like, and I send them little voicemail. I have voice messages going with like five people right now that are just like, “Oh, how do I sing a high G?” and “I’m working on this,” and if you send me stuff, I will send you stuff back. So I’m, I’m easy to get.

Michelle Lynne: How, how do you make time for this if, when you have such a huge following and you’re singing in the biggest halls in the world and, like, you’re just giving coachings on your Instagram DMs?

Lucas Meachem: Ah, that’s a great question. I don’t even think of it as making time. I think of it as I got so much help when I was coming up from like the generation before me that I can only think that there’s… I could never repay the people that, that have helped me so much. And so, the, it doesn’t feel like work at all to me. It just feels like, go do what you should do, which is get back to the generation uh, that, that’s coming up.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah. That’s amazing. I mean, I mean, I saw your, I saw your Wikipedia. Is it true that you were discovered in a karaoke bar? I think that’s what I gotta know.

Lucas Meachem: Uh, you know, it’s kind—

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Lucas Meachem: That’s the perfect analogy for social media is that I was discovered in a karaoke bar.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: You know, what you see is not reality is not social media, you know?

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Lucas Meachem: I was discovered in a karaoke bar about 10 years after beginning to study opera and singing, and you know, having gone through eight years of university, two years of, uh, a, a young artist program at San Francisco Opera, then I was discovered. You’re right.

Michelle Lynne: That’s hilarious. But you know what, like, we always need those little catch phrase from the marketing story, right? So I just thought it was so funny that that’s.

Lucas Meachem: That karaoke story is evergreen, and I’ll tell you, if you ask.

Michelle Lynne: Okay. Speaking of the social media, if you wanna start with like the, the online presence, that’s how we found you. And I think I, I shared this with you already, but we’ve been using your um, socials as an example in the entrepreneurship class that I taught at university because you’re so open with your audience and building a fan base, and you’ve got the, the vlogs and you show your life and your family and your beautiful wife. So I would just love to maybe start there, like, why, when you have this career, this amazing career with like the biggest halls and the prestige and the roles and the preparation that goes, and still you’re letting people in. So I think that’s, that’s really interesting for us.

Lucas Meachem: Well, thanks for saying all those nice things because success—

Michelle Lynne: This season alone, you’re at, you’re right now you’re in Florence. You’re opening L’Opéra de Demain tomorrow.

Lucas Meachem: Yes.

Michelle Lynne: Yes. Um.

Lucas Meachem: I, I am tomorrow opening, uh, Pearl Fishers, and, uh,

Michelle Lynne: And then you’re gonna be, you know, Barcelona and New York this season and it just.

Lucas Meachem: It, it is great. It’s so funny though because it’s, it’s, so much work and effort to build a career, and to not just build it, but to maintain a career, that the maintenance never feels like success. And so from the outside looking in, I am, I guess, successful. I have, I am currently succeeding, but I have so much more that I want to accomplish. And what, what I, I’ve talked with some really dear friends about this who, who have the same, is that the, the, the amount of grind and effort it takes to get here, and the amount of the work ethic that you build to be able to make a career in opera, can’t put that down once you have, quote unquote, began, begun to make it. It’s like, it, it never goes away. I still have such ambitions that I feel like I’m still getting started inside of me. I’m like, “Okay, well, now I’m singing here, but I know I need to do these roles.” And now, and, and now that the world has opened up for me, it’s like, “Oh my God, I have, I, I’m, I’m a baby in this world.” And so in a way, it’s a good thing and it’s a way, it’s, it’s tough because you should appreciate how far you’ve come while also having ambition for achieving more in the future. And I’m trying to walk that tightrope and it’s, it’s not… I don’t always succeed, uh, but I think, I think what, what, what you’re feeling in my social media is simply the fact that I’m not trying to be anything on social media other than authentic. That is, that is the secret recipe for social media is authenticity. And you can feel fakeness, you can feel somebody gr—you know, grubbing for, for likes and for views and for, for followship. I, I didn’t set out to become anything on social media other than myself and maybe try and help some people along the way, and, and if I had something to give back, I wanted to give it back because I have a feeling of, of gaining so much from those who came before me, like I said earlier, that I just want to help those that I can. And, uh, I don’t wanna make money. I don’t make money. I mean, even, even the books that the, that, that we sell, it’s, it’s negligible. You know, it’s like, it’s all about the, the just putting it back out there. And I’m one of those believers that it comes back to you if you put yourself in and love out there, it somehow finds its way back.

Michelle Lynne: That’s so beautiful and I appreciate so much of what you just said. Can you talk more about the, the level of effort it takes to maintain where you’re at? Because there’s supposed to be this idea that, you know, it takes so much to start up, but once you get there, you can manage it. But you’re saying, “No, it’s still costing you to maintain this level.”

Lucas Meachem: I’ll say this: I have never worked harder in my career than I do right this second.

Michelle Lynne: Wow.

Lucas Meachem: Never. Never. I mean, just, I was just singing a world premiere at La Scala and it was the hardest I’ve ever worked in my career. It was a, it was a world premiere. It was, it was a experience, but a big, very difficult experience as well. And there are just so many obstacles and hurdles because the thing is, the more you learn, the more you’re able to sort of move forward in the career. And you’re like, “Okay, I’m, I’m feeling very good in this.” And then, you move up, uh, another level and all of a sudden there are new hurdles that you have to learn how to deal with. So there’s hurdles at every level. And, uh, I mean, it’s this, this joke that everyone knows that’s, uh, you know, the four stages of, uh, any career, but an operatic career is, uh, “Who’s Lucas Meachem?” And then they say, “Hit me, Lucas Meachem.” And then the third stage is, “We’ve got Lucas Meachem.” And then the fourth is, “Who’s Lucas Meachem?” So it’s, it’s the, you know, those, those really are the four stages of this. And so you kind of, knowing that’s coming, knowing that is part of the deal, you just wanna stay relevant in some way as long as you can.

Michelle Lynne: Hmm.

Lucas Meachem: That the harder I work and the more prepared I am, and the more I show up ready to do a good job, the, the more relevant I can be.

Michelle Lynne: How have you learned to improve the hard work? Because you’ve, you’ve worked hard your entire career up to now, so what has changed in your method, your preparation, your intention when you show up?

Lucas Meachem: An understanding of what this career… I mean, I don’t wanna say I, I know what this career is about, but I know a lot more than I used to. I used to ignorantly think that best singer wins. And the thing is, you do have to be the best singer you can possibly be. But there are so many other factors that I never would’ve considered, uh, when I was younger. When I was starting out, I just thought, “I’m just gonna be the best singer and I will succeed.” And it is just that simple. And there are so many more details. I mean, we could get into it a little bit, but you can’t even, you can’t even list them all. And, and, and however long this podcast is gonna be, there’s just a lot more details that people care about. I, I’ll give just a quick example, or not even example, just a quick piece of advice is that if you look at your career through or what you want through the eyes of the casting director, I think you’ll find more success in getting what you want.

Michelle Lynne: Oh, that’s interesting. Like tailoring the messaging for who the audience is.

Lucas Meachem: Who the audience that is going to pay your bills is.

Michelle Lynne: Right, right.

Lucas Meachem: Not the public.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: Because I, I, I’ve seen people not do well with the public and then saying, have very big careers at certain opera houses.

Can you remove any bold texts in this transcript, and please give me the whole transcript please. thank you

Just a sec…

Michelle Lynne: Hey, everybody, and welcome back to The Fearless Artist Podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Lin, and today I’m very honored to have Lucas Meachem on. Welcome, Lucas.

Lucas Meachem: Thanks.

Michelle Lynne: Thanks.

Lucas Meachem: As well, though. I feel that word is way overused, especially in social—

Michelle Lynne: Oh.

Lucas Meachem: —could jump right in.

Michelle Lynne: Well, I truly was honored, but, but we can, I can say—

Lucas Meachem: you.

Michelle Lynne: I can say I’m excited and thrilled and anticipating this conversation, ’cause my staff, my TFA staff, is fangirling over this. They were like, “Oh my God! He said yes, he’s coming on!” They were so… like, our group chat exploded when you said yes. So.

Lucas Meachem: Only they knew how easy it was to get me. I am a yes guy. I love doing—like, literally people write me on Instagram or anywhere, and I’m just like, and I send them little voicemail. I have voice messages going with like five people right now that are just like, “Oh, how do I sing a high G?” and “I’m working on this,” and if you send me stuff, I will send you stuff back. So I’m, I’m easy to get.

Michelle Lynne: How, how do you make time for this if, when you have such a huge following and you’re singing in the biggest halls in the world and, like, you’re just giving coachings on your Instagram DMs?

Lucas Meachem: Ah, that’s a great question. I don’t even think of it as making time. I think of it as I got so much help when I was coming up from like the generation before me that I can only think that there’s… I could never repay the people that, that have helped me so much. And so, the, it doesn’t feel like work at all to me. It just feels like, go do what you should do, which is get back to the generation uh, that, that’s coming up.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah. That’s amazing. I mean, I mean, I saw your, I saw your Wikipedia. Is it true that you were discovered in a karaoke bar? I think that’s what I gotta know.

Lucas Meachem: Uh, you know, it’s kind—

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Lucas Meachem: That’s the perfect analogy for social media is that I was discovered in a karaoke bar.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: You know, what you see is not reality is not social media, you know?

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Lucas Meachem: I was discovered in a karaoke bar about 10 years after beginning to study opera and singing, and you know, having gone through eight years of university, two years of, uh, a, a young artist program at San Francisco Opera, then I was discovered. You’re right.

Michelle Lynne: That’s hilarious. But you know what, like, we always need those little catch phrase from the marketing story, right? So I just thought it was so funny that that’s.

Lucas Meachem: That karaoke story is evergreen, and I’ll tell you, if you ask.

Michelle Lynne: Okay. Speaking of the social media, if you wanna start with like the, the online presence, that’s how we found you. And I think I, I shared this with you already, but we’ve been using your um, socials as an example in the entrepreneurship class that I taught at university because you’

Can you remove any bold texts in this transcript except the speaker names on the front, and please give me the whole transcript please. thank you

Michelle Lynne: Hey, everybody, and welcome back to The Fearless Artist Podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Lin, and today I’m very honored to have Lucas Meachem on. Welcome, Lucas.

Lucas Meachem: Thanks.

Michelle Lynne: Thanks.

Lucas Meachem: As well, though. I feel that word is way overused, especially in social—

Michelle Lynne: Oh.

Lucas Meachem: —could jump right in.

Michelle Lynne: Well, I truly was honored, but, but we can, I can say—

Lucas Meachem: you.

Michelle Lynne: I can say I’m excited and thrilled and anticipating this conversation, ’cause my staff, my TFA staff, is fangirling over this. They were like, “Oh my God! He said yes, he’s coming on!” They were so… like, our group chat exploded when you said yes. So.

Lucas Meachem: Only they knew how easy it was to get me. I am a yes guy. I love doing—like, literally people write me on Instagram or anywhere, and I’m just like, and I send them little voicemail. I have voice messages going with like five people right now that are just like, “Oh, how do I sing a high G?” and “I’m working on this,” and if you send me stuff, I will send you stuff back. So I’m, I’m easy to get.

Michelle Lynne: How, how do you make time for this if, when you have such a huge following and you’re singing in the biggest halls in the world and, like, you’re just giving coachings on your Instagram DMs?

Lucas Meachem: Ah, that’s a great question. I don’t even think of it as making time. I think of it as I got so much help when I was coming up from like the generation before me that I can only think that there’s… I could never repay the people that, that have helped me so much. And so, the, it doesn’t feel like work at all to me. It just feels like, go do what you should do, which is get back to the generation uh, that, that’s coming up.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah. That’s amazing. I mean, I mean, I saw your, I saw your Wikipedia. Is it true that you were discovered in a karaoke bar? I think that’s what I gotta know.

Lucas Meachem: Uh, you know, it’s kind—

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Lucas Meachem: That’s the perfect analogy for social media is that I was discovered in a karaoke bar.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: You know, what you see is not reality is not social media, you know?

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Lucas Meachem: I was discovered in a karaoke bar about 10 years after beginning to study opera and singing, and you know, having gone through eight years of university, two years of, uh, a, a young artist program at San Francisco Opera, then I was discovered. You’re right.

Michelle Lynne: That’s hilarious. But you know what, like, we always need those little catch phrase from the marketing story, right? So I just thought it was so funny that that’s.

Lucas Meachem: That karaoke story is evergreen, and I’ll tell you, if you ask.

Michelle Lynne: Okay. Speaking of the social media, if you wanna start with like the, the online presence, that’s how we found you. And I think I, I shared this with you already, but we’ve been using your um, socials as an example in the entrepreneurship class that I taught at university because you’re so open with your audience and building a fan base, and you’ve got the, the vlogs and you show your life and your family and your beautiful wife. So I would just love to maybe start there, like, why, when you have this career, this amazing career with like the biggest halls and the prestige and the roles and the preparation that goes, and still you’re letting people in. So I think that’s, that’s really interesting for us.

Lucas Meachem: Well, thanks for saying all those nice things because success—

Michelle Lynne: This season alone, you’re at, you’re right now you’re in Florence. You’re opening L’Opéra de Demain tomorrow.

Lucas Meachem: Yes.

Michelle Lynne: Yes. Um.

Lucas Meachem: I, I am tomorrow opening, uh, Pearl Fishers, and, uh,

Michelle Lynne: And then you’re gonna be, you know, Barcelona and New York this season and it just.

Lucas Meachem: It, it is great. It’s so funny though because it’s, it’s, so much work and effort to build a career, and to not just build it, but to maintain a career, that the maintenance never feels like success. And so from the outside looking in, I am, I guess, successful. I have, I am currently succeeding, but I have so much more that I want to accomplish. And what, what I, I’ve talked with some really dear friends about this who, who have the same, is that the, the, the amount of grind and effort it takes to get here, and the amount of the work ethic that you build to be able to make a career in opera, can’t put that down once you have, quote unquote, began, begun to make it. It’s like, it, it never goes away. I still have such ambitions that I feel like I’m still getting started inside of me. I’m like, “Okay, well, now I’m singing here, but I know I need to do these roles.” And now, and, and now that the world has opened up for me, it’s like, “Oh my God, I have, I, I’m, I’m a baby in this world.” And so in a way, it’s a good thing and it’s a way, it’s, it’s tough because you should appreciate how far you’ve come while also having ambition for achieving more in the future. And I’m trying to walk that tightrope and it’s, it’s not… I don’t always succeed, uh, but I think, I think what, what, what you’re feeling in my social media is simply the fact that I’m not trying to be anything on social media other than authentic. That is, that is the secret recipe for social media is authenticity. And you can feel fakeness, you can feel somebody gr—you know, grubbing for, for likes and for views and for, for followship. I, I didn’t set out to become anything on social media other than myself and maybe try and help some people along the way, and, and if I had something to give back, I wanted to give it back because I have a feeling of, of gaining so much from those who came before me, like I said earlier, that I just want to help those that I can. And, uh, I don’t wanna make money. I don’t make money. I mean, even, even the books that the, that, that we sell, it’s, it’s negligible. You know, it’s like, it’s all about the, the just putting it back out there. And I’m one of those believers that it comes back to you if you put yourself in and love out there, it somehow finds its way back.

Michelle Lynne: That’s so beautiful and I appreciate so much of what you just said. Can you talk more about the, the level of effort it takes to maintain where you’re at? Because there’s supposed to be this idea that, you know, it takes so much to start up, but once you get there, you can manage it. But you’re saying, “No, it’s still costing you to maintain this level.”

Lucas Meachem: I’ll say this: I have never worked harder in my career than I do right this second.

Michelle Lynne: Wow.

Lucas Meachem: Never. Never. I mean, just, I was just singing a world premiere at La Scala and it was the hardest I’ve ever worked in my career. It was a, it was a world premiere. It was, it was a experience, but a big, very difficult experience as well. And there are just so many obstacles and hurdles because the thing is, the more you learn, the more you’re able to sort of move forward in the career. And you’re like, “Okay, I’m, I’m feeling very good in this.” And then, you move up, uh, another level and all of a sudden there are new hurdles that you have to learn how to deal with. So there’s hurdles at every level. And, uh, I mean, it’s this, this joke that everyone knows that’s, uh, you know, the four stages of, uh, any career, but an operatic career is, uh, “Who’s Lucas Meachem?” And then they say, “Hit me, Lucas Meachem.” And then the third stage is, “We’ve got Lucas Meachem.” And then the fourth is, “Who’s Lucas Meachem?” So it’s, it’s the, you know, those, those really are the four stages of this. And so you kind of, knowing that’s coming, knowing that is part of the deal, you just wanna stay relevant in some way as long as you can.

Michelle Lynne: Hmm.

Lucas Meachem: That the harder I work and the more prepared I am, and the more I show up ready to do a good job, the, the more relevant I can be.

Michelle Lynne: How have you learned to improve the hard work? Because you’ve, you’ve worked hard your entire career up to now, so what has changed in your method, your preparation, your intention when you show up?

Lucas Meachem: An understanding of what this career… I mean, I don’t wanna say I, I know what this career is about, but I know a lot more than I used to. I used to ignorantly think that best singer wins. And the thing is, you do have to be the best singer you can possibly be. But there are so many other factors that I never would’ve considered, uh, when I was younger. When I was starting out, I just thought, “I’m just gonna be the best singer and I will succeed.” And it is just that simple. And there are so many more details. I mean, we could get into it a little bit, but you can’t even, you can’t even list them all. And, and, and however long this podcast is gonna be, there’s just a lot more details that people care about. I, I’ll give just a quick example, or not even example, just a quick piece of advice is that if you look at your career through or what you want through the eyes of the casting director, I think you’ll find more success in getting what you want.

Michelle Lynne: Oh, that’s interesting. Like tailoring the messaging for who the audience is.

Lucas Meachem: Who the audience that is going to pay your bills is.

Michelle Lynne: Right, right.

Lucas Meachem: Not the public.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: Because I, I, I’ve seen people not do well with the public and then saying, have very big careers at certain opera houses.

Michelle Lynne: Mm.

Lucas Meachem: And, and not even sing, not even be the best singers, but it’s, uh, like anything, relationships are so important.

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Lucas Meachem: You don’t have to be everything to everyone. You have to be really liked by six to 10 houses and you can have a major career that way.

Michelle Lynne: Oh, that’s nice. That’s interesting. What’s, what’s one of the most surprising things, looking back when you were a student? You’re saying back then you thought, “I just need to be the best.” And now you’re saying there were so many more pieces. What was the one that really surprised you?

Lucas Meachem: Well, back in the day when I started, it was six pack abs.

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Lucas Meachem: Like to be a baritone, you just needed a six pack and you were gonna take your shirt off. And, uh, that, that, that always surprised me. I mean, I was never outta shape, but I was never like six pack in shape and I thought, “Well, I, that’s okay because I, I sing better than some of those baritones that have six pack abs.” So that will be fine. And ultimately, it has turned out to be fine. And I have weathered the storm of the six pack, and, uh, back in the day uh. Anyway, but that, that, that was something that I had to overcome, but I had to realize it existed to, in order to overcome it, you know, or in order to play that game, you—

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: —had to, you know, do a hundred pushups a day for a few weeks and see where we’re at when I have to do Don Giovanni and, and be shirtless. You know, it’s like learn the game so that you can play the game. And, and that doesn’t mean playing the game. It means knowing the game and playing your own game that might help you to get to where you want to be.

Michelle Lynne: Kinda like knowing the enemy a bit too. Like what are you up against?

Lucas Meachem: The enemy of my enemy is my, my friend. You know, it’s like, yeah. So what, what, what does that make a six pack? The enemy of six packs is donuts. So donuts are my friend. That’s what—

Michelle Lynne: I love this. I love this analogy when you say being aware of what the casting director wants, but then you also said authenticity is one of your core values. That’s what you’re showing on ins—on Instagram, on your socials. How did you navigate that? Being aware of what the person listening to you wants and needs, and still staying your true artistic self.

Lucas Meachem: They’re completely different things. Social media. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I see people have careers because of social media. I, I, I, I think that era might be not coming to an end, but there’s, there’s not the day where, you know, like Joyce DiDonato, they say they sold, she sold out Carnegie Hall with a tweet. You know, it’s like, like I, I think that that time is sort of in the past. However, social media, I’m not saying social media is, is—social media is absolutely the future, for sure. But, um, if I have a huge social media presence and I go into rehearsal unprepared and I show up late and I don’t sing well, I’m not going back to that company.

Michelle Lynne: Right.

Lucas Meachem: Likely, very, very likely. You know, so there are certain professional things that you have to have just as a normal, you know, uh, which is, you know, show up on time, know your music, be a good, decent person to your cast and colleagues, and, uh. I mean, that’s, that’s, you could, you could apply that to any, any professional setting. Then social media in addition to that, can be a—I think of it more of a supplement at this point. But again, I didn’t mean to, I didn’t mean to, to have followers and, and I still, I don’t even know how many followers I have. That’s how I, I am into helping people if I can. And if they like it, then great. But I think again, what they like is not even always the message, it’s the fact that I’m just being me doing it.

Michelle Lynne: Right.

Lucas Meachem: Like, I think you’re probably picking up on that now. I, I mean, we, we talked for like 15 minutes before this about life and all sorts of stuff, and it’s just, I don’t know. I’m, well, well, when I meet people that are kind and reciprocate that sort of energy, I really do enjoy just chatting. So—

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: This is great.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah, that’s, that’s amazing. And I also so appreciate, uh, the humility and the character that comes through when, when people meet. Um, but going back to the authentic side, like removing the social media aspect, but just, you know, taking that out of the equation. As a performer, and you know what they’re looking for. How do you navigate staying true to how you would show up on stage, regardless of if you knew that information? Do you know what I mean?

Lucas Meachem: I know exactly what you mean and I mean, this is an even deeper question, you know, ’cause it’s, it’s—

Michelle Lynne: I.

Lucas Meachem: We could talk about authentically performing or being an authentic performer, but before you can even be an authentic performer, you have to be an authentic human. And, uh, so it really, before you can do any of that, you have to look inward and at least be able to, to, to think and dare I say, judge—I think judge is probably not the right word to use—but at least be able to honestly look inside of yourself and judge or judge again. Judge, yes. Evaluate is a much better way. Thank you for, for feeding that, um, to evaluate what’s going on in the moment, what’s going on in the room. How am I coming off? Because I mean, in, in my twenties I was all about, “Yes, Maestro! Yes, Director! Let’s just throw ourselves out there too much all the time.” Lucas reigned in. In my thirties, I was a little defensive. “I know what I’m doing now. I’m ready to go out there. No, let me take charge. Let me do this. And sorry if you don’t like this, I’m not gonna…” I was, I was a little combative. In my forties, I’m back to, “Yes, Maestro, but, but would you mind if we possibly tried it this way?” You know, it’s like you have to sort of like, can’t have any rough edges.

Michelle Lynne: Hmm.

Lucas Meachem: To, you, you can’t have too many rough edges. You really need to, to, to learn how to get what you need in a kind, thoughtful, and, uh, professional manner, manner, and, um, I don’t know. I’m kind of bouncing all over the place.

Michelle Lynne: No, I love this because, yeah, no, just about being authentic. When, when we are performers and we know, you know, you were talking about getting the role or being invited back and it’s because you, you started thinking more what the casting director wants. So my question, knowing like, how you appear online is very authentic. So I’m assuming that’s one of your core values is authenticity or even how we started this conversation is just very open and relatable from the beginning. So just wondering like how do you navigate that in this professional setting, in these, in these big halls like the—

Lucas Meachem: It’s a, it’s a very difficult question because I talk about authenticity. I, I start to think about the ways that I am inauthentic in a professional setting. ‘Cause in social media, I am, try to be very authentic. In the opera building, you cannot be authentically yourself 100%.

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Lucas Meachem: You can go on stage and try and lend your authenticity to a moment on stage as a character and whatnot. But you, you, authenticity has actually been my enemy for a lot of my career, gotten in, in, because an opera career is international. If, if, if you succeed, you, you’ve got international opera career. I mean, there are American careers, there are European careers, there are German careers, there are Austrian careers. There are, there are careers in, in many different facets. But I’d say that the biggest careers are the ones that end up being, uh, international and um. If that’s what you’re searching to do, you do need to understand that they look on, uh, at least the American identity as being a little too much, a little too smiley, a little too out there. And that was something I had to learn in a bit of a difficult way. Even the first time I worked in Europe was in Germany and uh, and I got the feeling that my southern charm did not hit in the way it does in the South, especially. So I actually act a little bit differently in Europe and even in different countries. I will act a little bit differently in rehearsal, in the rehearsal process, and—

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: My friends are my friends. My friends get me.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: As soon as I walk into an opera house, I’m wearing a nice shirt. I, I walk in, not myself. If I were myself, I’d be wearing cut off jeans and like a used Jägermeister t-shirt, you know, which is—

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: —my wear back when I was in school, you know. But for me, it’s like you have to look a certain way. You have to present yourself for a certain way, and you dress for the job you want. So when you go into a house in Europe, you just can’t quite be the same exact person that you are at home. If—

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Lucas Meachem: —the opera house, you’re there to work. You know, it’s, it’s the same, you know, if you worked at a, at a law firm or at a, as a, as a professor, you’re not going in there, you know, with a bowl of Cheerios and saying, “What’s up, peeps? Let’s, uh, let’s learn about some quantum physics today.” You know, it’s like you go in there with a certain, a certain aura, a certain air about yourself, that you’re a professional person who takes the himself seriously. And so yes, authenticity helps to a point. And I think you need to divide the social media authenticity from the professional setting in the rehearsal space and and your dressing room and backstage authenticity.

Michelle Lynne: But some people are using their socials in that way, the second way that you’re describing, where they are very serious and they don’t let people come past the wall of professionalism, let’s say. And I think that’s why we were so drawn to you, especially showing as examples of your vlogs or just like you let us in. Like, you know, you’ve got you wife and your son and he’s running backstage and you’re showing your costume changes and you’re showing your warmup, and you’re showing, you know, even your process of learning a brand new role in four months, I think, was one of your videos. And I was like, “This is so cool. Like, you’re letting us in.” And that’s not something everyone does. So I’d be curious to know, like you mentioned, wanting to help others. Is there anything else behind this?

Lucas Meachem: Well, I, I think it’s kinda old school to, to be the, the wrapped up artist who’s not gonna let people in. ‘Cause social media takes down the barrier for us. I can write to Renée Fleming, you know, and I mean, she’s not gonna get it, but you know, her social media team will get it and maybe she’ll be, “Hey, Lucas wrote you,” and, but I mean. You know, it’s like you do feel like you have access to people that you’ve never had before. You know, even backstage at the Met, some people would slip out the, the, the crew door, you know, and so it’s like, you know, it, it’s, it’s just a different world. Social media has completely leveled the playing field and made stars, opera stars more accessible to—

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lucas Meachem: —in a way that’s a good thing and a bad thing. And it actually sort of goes back to the authenticity in Europe thing that I had. It’s like the, the, the whole Maria Callas sort of, you know, thing and, “I’m not going to speak.” And, you know, it’s like this, even the way people acted back then. Like I, I’ll watch, uh, uh, recordings of famous, you know, Italian baritones and they’ll, and they really just stand and sing, and they mean everything in the voice. But these days it’s just a little bit more, you know, there’s a little more physicality to the acting, a little more, I guess they would consider it overdone, where now we would consider them to be stoic and, and, and underdone and, uh, but again, you can, you can, you can choose to label that as a positive or negative thing. You know, if I called the, the way they did stoic, it sounds nice. If I call it boring, it’s not nice. If I call ours overdone or, or, uh, you know, overacting, or I could call it, you know, “Wow! He really physicalized those emotions.” You know, it’s like, you know, so, and it’s, it’s potato, potato, but because social media opens things up, I am, I’m just, I’m kind of an open guy myself. I’m from the south. My mom loves to talk to people. My dad’s a really cool dude, and he is like, so, I don’t know. I have, I, I, I don’t fall far from my parents’ tree and they were really open people, and so, I don’t know. I just, social media, it’s mine. I get to have it. I get to do what I want with it, right? So I’m gonna be open. I’m gonna be, I’m gonna give back if I can.

Michelle Lynne: That’s beautiful. Um, I’d love for you to talk more about this culture thing where you’re saying, you know, being an American in Germany, or I mean, how have you, what’s, you know, what’s the Italian version of Lucas right now? How are you acting in rehearsals? Are you a bit more fiery when you’re giving feedback or are you, you know, I know you’re eating great pasta.

Lucas Meachem: I am, I am. I had pasta for dinner, as a matter of—

Michelle Lynne: Yes.

Lucas Meachem: No, I, I think if you keep it classy at all moments, if there’s a moment you think, “Am I overdoing it? Am I being too much?” instead, “Am I keeping it classy?” Because that’s the most important thing, and that, that, that, that has really served me well in these particular settings of, of expectations, you know, because they do have certain expectations. And when I’m asked, “Where are you from?” uh, and they don’t assume America, and if they don’t know me, then I think I’ve done my job.

Michelle Lynne: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Lucas Meachem: So, yeah, I, I just, less is more. Less is more. If you’re an American listening to this, which who knows? Maybe you are, maybe you’re not, but less is more in Europe.

Michelle Lynne: I’ve learned that also a couple times the hard way, being in my smiley Canadian self, coming over here to the, the Netherlands where I’m based. And sometimes they’re just like, “We don’t get it.” You know, you, um, just this kind of instant best friend connection that you can have with someone. They’re like, “Friendships take a lot longer over here to kind of get to know people and trust, but then once you’re in, you’re really in and you become kind of one of the core circles.” So I had to learn to navigate that. It’s been, it’s been interesting. Um, how do you find the audiences with all of these concerts internationally, like you’re saying, or do you notice a difference with the people and the responses?

Lucas Meachem: Yeah. I mean, there, I, yeah, absolutely. Uh, I mean, I think the American audiences, for the most part, the applause gets louder towards the last bow.

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Lucas Meachem: And, uh, and that, that will happen sometimes in Europe. But, uh, that’s what’s nice is when, I mean, let’s, let’s talk about what is nice, is what, what I find nice is if there’s, um, I’ll give an example that I had. I was at the Met and I watched Porgy and Bess. That was years ago, but the strawberry man, he was, he was like, I don’t know what the name of the role. He was selling strawberries, the most beautiful baritone voice. And I, when he came to bow, I was like, “Strawberry man!” And I’m like, you know, I love it when people can hear that sings and, and says, “Oh man, they might not have a big role yet. That means they’re young. That means they’re up and coming. Let’s encourage them because, God, what a talent that was.” But it’s because people have lost the ability to tell that that’s a talent because people, people, I, I, well, this is, this is getting a little deeper than maybe we want, but I find that people these days, they listen and they taste with their eyes. I think this is a product of social media.

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Lucas Meachem: And, and the time that we live in. So if they, you go to a restaurant and all the waiters are dressed really nicely in a hip style and they serve these beautiful plates full of food. And the, it’s, there’s it’s art on the plate, and it tastes kind of good, but not great. It’s great because it looked great. But if you go to a restaurant that’s got, you know, chicken wire and you’re sitting at, you know, bar stools and everything, and you taste something that’s by a chef who’s really good in the back and you’re like, “Oh my God, that knocked my socks off!” It is just good because of the setting, because we’re eating with our eyes. It’s the same thing when we’re listening to opera many times, that if somebody looks impressive, then they must sound impressive.

Michelle Lynne: Mm.

Lucas Meachem: And it is just not the way of the world right now. It’s, it’s, it’s, and so you have a small percentage of the audience know what they’re listening for and another percentage of the audience, a much larger percentage. It’s like, “Good for them. They did that really well. And look at, yay! That was, that was, wait, we, and we paid a lot of money for these seats, so it has to be good.” So it’s, it’s a, there’s a bit of a disconnect right now. I mean, it’s probably been this way for a long time, if I’m being honest. You know, the people that really know, you know, the voices that are the next big things. But, um, I feel like the disconnect’s a little bigger these days than it, than it has been in the past.

Michelle Lynne: So why are there so few who know what they’re listening for and how do we get more of them? Is it an education question? Is it, as you’re saying, we have too much visuals in front of us all the time on the phone? Like where is this coming from?

Lucas Meachem: It’s probably a few things. I mean, I don’t want to act like some guru that knows all this, but I do know that instant gratification, uh, is a, uh, I feel it myself when I’m looking at reels. I’m like, “All right, well, I saw it for that.” Or if somebody on social media says, “Hey guys, thanks for…” I’m like, “Swoop!” You know, get into it! You know? But that’s, that’s the moment that we’re living in. It’s like—

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: —like, “What’s up, guys? What’s up, team? What’s up?” I’m like, “No!” It’s like, “Just start talking!” Like, it literally, and even if I say that, I’ll cut that part out.

Michelle Lynne: Yes.

Lucas Meachem: It’s all it is is saying, “Am I gonna be good at this? Am I gonna, is this gonna be a good take?”

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Lucas Meachem: I hear when I hear people say that, “Is this gonna be a good take?” And so this instant gratification thing, it’s part of, in my opinion, this, this, this idea. But again, now the more I think about it, it’s, it’s not anything so new.

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Lucas Meachem: But I think especially in America, we, we are, we have moved into a direction of, of trying to put on stage something that we think the audience will approve of before it. It is talented before it gets on stage. We’re trying to, we’re trying to say something before the art has said something. “Look at what we’ve done! Look at the show we’re doing! Look at the cast we have! Oh, it’s so diverse!” It’s so whatever it is, you can add in buzzwords here and there. And so they get to sell that on social media and they get to sell that in the media, and before it’s open, “Oh, it’s gonna be a success, ’cause look how—”

Michelle Lynne: So much stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: And it hasn’t even opened and the people haven’t even sung and it’s buzzword great. Or you can go see the show that they’re doing after that show. And maybe it’s a better show. Maybe it’s got better singers. So again, this, of course, I’m, I’ve always liked to wish that best singer could win because I really think that’s what opera should be about. His best singer, best singer for the role, that role, you know, and, and. There’s some really great singers right now. You know, I’m not one of these people that thinks all the golden age singers were then and there’s nothing now. I think, I think if anything, you know, we’re at least a match for the golden age singers right now. And they didn’t have to deal with all this pressure, all the social media pressure. ‘Cause it’s a lot. It’s a lot to, to have. It’s a bit of a, a, a monster actually, because now it’s not just what you did that night in the theater, it’s, it’s, “Then what are you saying afterwards? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, fine. He’s saying, uh, uh, ‘Ton.’ Sure, he did that. But what does he have to say about it tomorrow when he is eating his breakfast and his coffee and his espresso, and is he going to Café Luxembourg? And what,” you know, it’s like, it’s so much more. But, you know, it’s, it’s great and it’s terrible, and it’s, it’s responsible for some things that it’s blamed on. It’s not responsible for other things. It is. So, you know. It’s just nobody can pin it down. It’s just always moving.

Michelle Lynne: I think it’s just fascinating how you’re describing, you know, the buzz around the show to sell it. But what do you do if the problem is, you know, as you said, most of the audience doesn’t know what they’re listening for, so then they actually kind of need to do all this, build up this hype to get people butts in seats so that we can sell tickets so that we can keep going. ‘Cause we need the money, we need the funding for the show. So, I mean, it’s like we need to educate audiences to be listening for quality, so—

Lucas Meachem: But that, that, that, that is exactly why I’m bringing this up as sort of an issue, is that the show is great before the audience has gone.

Michelle Lynne: Hmm.

Lucas Meachem: And when a show is great before they’ve gone, then you can’t really judge it on its merits and you’re not teaching people about what is actually great. And every once in a while there will be a show that’s not supposed to be great, but they got a cast just perfect and there’s such great chemistry, and then all of a sudden it’s all people are talking about. It’s like, “Oh my God, have you seen this show?” And it’ll kind of come outta nowhere and they’ll be like, and all of a sudden they sell out. And that used to happen a lot more on opera. And I find that it doesn’t happen quite as often these days that, you know, there’s just this chemistry among the cast. They cast perfect people at the perfect time for the perfect repertoire that’s in their voice, and they really just hit it on all cylinders and it’s just firing off. And you’ll, you’ll see it. You’ll see it because it’ll, it will supersede social media. It will use—

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Lucas Meachem: —to help. But then word of mouth will start talking about it.

Michelle Lynne: Right.

Lucas Meachem: Like Opera Theatre St. Louis is doing this right now. Like they’re doing a great job at not just utilizing social media, but hiring great singers and great people to come be part of their productions. And they’ve really, they’ve just, they’ve leveled up, frankly. Uh, Houston Grand Opera, another one who’s just leveled up because they’re hiring great people. And I think, of course, a singer would say this, but it has to start with the singing. It ha it can’t just be, “Wow, that production was so complex. Oh man, that my show. Did you see his hair was so long and curly and he did all this—”

Michelle Lynne: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: Sure, the orchestra can sound great and the set can look great, but if you don’t hire world-class singers, or at least singers that are at the level, at the perfect time to do this, I mean, it’s, it’s a whole, it’s a whole mix. That’s what ulus, that’s what it makes it the greatest art form. Instead, it, it combines all these things, but if it doesn’t start with the, the foundation of having great singing, you’re built upon a, a cracked foundation.

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm. It sounds like there should be something in your future about bringing casting, directing together. Is there anything around—

Lucas Meachem: No! Never!

Michelle Lynne: —people together and finding chemistry, and you have to know what’s gonna work, right? I mean, you’re lighting up, talking about it.

Lucas Meachem: Yeah. You, you. Well, I mean, if anyone had the formula, there’d be one opera house that was the most successful opera house in the world, and all of ’em. Others would be like, “Well, teach us your ways!” But I mean, that’s, I have so much respect for casting directors for doing exactly this, and when they get it right, it’s like, you know, like, like Greg Henkel. I think Greg Henkel is one of the best casting directors in the world. He’s San Francisco Opera, if you don’t know, he is. He’s the casting director of San Francisco Opera, and he has found so much talent, European talent, that have come over and made their debuts at San Francisco Opera. Like Anna Paol, who he wasn’t responsible for. But, you know, San Francisco Opera has launched a lot of, and I, I’m not just saying for the love of the company, I’m just, I think Greg’s a great guy and I think he’s a great casting director and that’s, that’s what I look for in a casting director, is somebody that’s going to have that vision that’s not just, like I said, you know, making it on paper a good show, but that somebody that takes account into account, not just the height of the tenor and the soprano. “Oh, it’s a little off.” Even though their voices might be perfect, you can ignore so much—

Michelle Lynne: Hmm.

Lucas Meachem: —if the voices are right, if they mean what they’re saying and if it’s the right time for them to be singing that repertoire.

Michelle Lynne: That’s a very complicated formula, as you’re saying. If there was a formula, there’s a lot of factors going into this.

Lucas Meachem: So many factors. And to, to learn about those factors, it’s a whole other ballpark, man. It’s, it’s, uh, it’s more than I want to do.

Michelle Lynne: With all the productions that you’ve done, when’s a moment that you knew on stage like I’m in the right place with the right people and there’s chemistry, and this is like, this is a golden moment?

Lucas Meachem: That’s a great question. Oh my God! Honestly, it’s, it’s hard to recall just one. I mean, the most recent one was probably Don Giovanni in Los Angeles. I we had an amazing cast. I thought it was. We really jelled together. We liked each other. We sang well together. Thaïs at LA that felt that way. It was a really great ca—I mean, ’cause you have some operas like Don Giovanni and Le nozze di Figaro that have six to eight main characters. And if you, if you mess up one, two of those, it’s, it’s hard to, it’s hard to build around that.

Michelle Lynne: No.

Lucas Meachem: So it’s easier, it’s easier to, to, to drop the ball on that. But if you do a, a Pearl Fishers or a Thaïs, like Thaïs has two main main characters and then a nobody. Uh, but if you do one of those, Tosca, same thing, you know, it’s like you’ve got the three main. If you can get those, those right, it’s easier to make one of those really l and, uh, and than it is to make a Nozze di Figaro or Don Giovanni. So when a Don Giovanni or a Nozze di Figaro, one with more of a cast gets it together and there’s a chemistry, that’s a little more rare, but, uh, yeah. I mean, it does happen, but it is, I won’t say it’s rare, but it’s not common.

Michelle Lynne: And it makes for beautiful moments to look back on. You were talking at the beginning about the process of getting to this point in your career. Appreciating all the success. Maybe like reflecting on those golden moments is a way to appreciate the journey that you’ve had.

Lucas Meachem: Uh, it should be. But honestly, I, I so much time looking forward and being in the moment, especially a, a, a child will do that for you. I have a 6-year-old son and he, really keeps me grounded in the moment. And I, I actually have a fear of looking in the past because I start to feel like I’m, it’s going too fast.

Michelle Lynne: Mm mm-hmm.

Lucas Meachem: And I find the older I get the, the faster it feels like it’s going in a way. And so I’m like, “Oh man, I, I, I must have debuted in San Francisco just like 10 years ago.” I’m like, “No, it’s like 20 plus.” And it’s, it’s, and I don’t know. It’s just, it’s, so, I, I, I don’t know. Maybe I’ll talk to my therapist about it. But that too. I hyper focus on the, on the, the now and, uh, and being as present with my, my son and my family as I can, and also present in what I’m working on because it really, really helps. You know, it’s like I can look in the future and say, “Oh, I can’t wait for that gig.” But honestly, I, I, I played that game before and it doesn’t lead anywhere other than not really appreciating where you’re on the moment. People will ask me, “Oh, what are you doing in the next summer?” I’m like, “I don’t know.” You know. And they ask me, “What’s your favorite opera?” I’m like, “Well, it’s what I’m doing in the moment.”

Michelle Lynne: That’s a.

Lucas Meachem: My favorite opera is the Pearl Fishers. It’s, pretty simple. I mean, I have a, a, a, you know, a media answer to that question, I guess you could call it. But really, I, I just love what I’m working on because I’m so deep into the work. I sold on it. I sell myself on it so that I can give the audience what I’ve sold myself on. You know, it’s like if you don’t trust it, if you don’t believe it, you can’t make an audience believe you.

Michelle Lynne: I need to know more about your work process. How have you learned to dig in and go deeper in the work? Working harder now than you ever have before.

Lucas Meachem: It’s all about keeping the bouncy castle inflated. It’s, it’s, I mean, there’s like, there’s kids bouncing all over the place and you’re doing this, and you’re doing this, and you’re like, “All right, let me just make sure that pump’s working and let me patch up all the, the holes that are leaking air.” And I feel like I’m, I’m the, I’m juggling and, and. It’s, I don’t know, the there, the more you do it, the more balls are in the air. That’s just what it is, you know? It’s, it’s, it’s not easier. It’s, and it’s easy to look. But people see the product of success, not the, the path to success. And so people don’t want to think that it’s ever been hard for me or that I’ve had to struggle in order to get here. That I, you know, I, there were times when I would have nothing, you know?

Michelle Lynne: Isn’t that the ultimate Americans exist story? That the struggle is the, what people gravitate towards is, “Wow, look how far he is come.” Maybe that’s just American Idol and not with the opera stars.

Lucas Meachem: I feel like yeah, it, it,

Michelle Lynne: Or they want you to be this prestigious image that they can kind of idolize, look up to.

Lucas Meachem: Well, there’s a lot of contention and I don’t, I don’t mean to get like, about, you know, American politics and not, not even politics, but like, it’s like people don’t want people to come from nothing. And they don’t want people to come from something. And it’s, it’s, it’s like they just sort of see, “Have you succeeded in this moment?” And, and if the answer is yes, then “Oh, great. They’re successful.” And it’s, I it’s very, it’s very spur of the moment. It’s very, very just, you know, there’s not much space in people’s minds for, “Oh yeah. I, I was a struggling young singer who came from a family that I don’t call poor, but we didn’t have much. And, uh, and it just, you know, because.” They say, or I, I, some people feel that, “Oh, well, I had less than that,” and, “I, I, I had, I had more than that. I had.” It’s, it’s, it’s just hard to empathize these days with other people. I, and not for me. I’m, I’m, I, I, my heart’s on my sleeve. I am an incredibly empathetic person. I empathize with people. I empathize with an, with animals. I, I, I, I try and be incredibly empathetic and, and, and. So I’m even empathetic with people that can’t be empathetic towards me because of what I’ve experienced. So I’m just trying to say that when they see the success you have, it almost discounts any sort of trouble you had getting to that success.

Michelle Lynne: Interesting. It’s like, “Oh, you’re fine now. You’re clearly doing fine, so we’re gonna ignore the fact that you had to work like crazy to get to this point.”

Lucas Meachem: Yeah. Yeah. Like I just give you an example. Like I. One of the first gigs I I ever got, I was a sophomore in, uh, it was between my sophomore and junior su—uh, summer at Appalachian State University, which is the school I got into. I got into a few schools, but it was the cheapest school I got into, which is why I attended school there ’cause I couldn’t have afford anything else. And, um. That summer I got into the Horn in the West. It’s an outdoor drama, and they paid me $7 a day for rehearsals and $11 a day for performances. And I was paying $50 a month to sleep on the floor in the living room of a friend of mine’s house. And I felt I, but the thing is, I felt so alive. I was doing every day I was going into and performing and practicing. I felt I was, I was so happy. I didn’t know hardship be—I guess I only knew. Even hardship. I didn’t know anything about anything. I was so ignorant. And I think that sort of attitude really can get you far. Just—

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Lucas Meachem: —ignorance. Just the enjoyment of being around people that like to do what you like to do. And it is a bit of a, a, a, I mean, the gleeful ignorance can become sort of dangerous ignorance if you assume everyone thinks like you because eventually there are, there is some cattiness in the opera world, which I didn’t really understand. I just thought, “God, how lucky are we all to be here? Shouldn’t we all just be nice to each other and love each other?” And it’s. All great until you start talking about levels of things and then, “Well, I’m, I want this job, and you’re trying to get this job and you’re a soprano. And I’m a soprano. We sing the same repertoire.” So it’s, if you, the more you concentrate on, on yourself, and the more you let all that stuff go by, the better you will do in anything you try to do. You know that you’re not, again, you’re not in competition against anyone but yourself.

Michelle Lynne: It is like that rise higher adage. You have to kinda go up, up above, you know, the chickens and the eagle. Eagle rises higher.

Lucas Meachem: Put helium in your bouncy house.

Michelle Lynne: I love this bouncy house analogy. Okay, so you’ve, you’ve just dug into the work, you focus on your craft, you’re appreciating the response you’re getting. Uh, what else keeps the drive so high? What, what urges you to keep going? What’s, what’s behind all of this energy? I mean, I know you guys, and I’d love to talk also about your wife and your collaboration with her, but you guys have a very busy life. You travel also with your child. I’ve seen him running around backstage. I mean, I know you’re navigating a lot. She, your albums that you’ve done together. It’s just, it’s a ton. I.

Lucas Meachem: Well, I mean, to get really real, it’s, it’s one of those things that, that, that worries me because it’s like success begets a certain lifestyle that becomes the norm, that only success can keep aloft. And so there’s more pressure on me now because of my son, because of my wife, because of our lifestyle, to continue this lifestyle that we’ve established. And it’s so, it’s kind of a, a of a snake eating its own tail in a way. And a lot of people in the opera world don’t, don’t talk about it. To be an artist at a high level, you have to be paid a certain amount of money to be able to afford to travel 10 months out of the year while you’re paying mortgages at home and while you’re paying for apartments in lu—the most expensive cities in the world. So it’s a very expensive proposition to try and get into opera, and the fact that they’re now bringing fees down while everything else, and not even now, I mean, fees haven’t gone up in 12 years. Ever since 2008, maybe even more like 2010 was when the met—that, that, that my financial meltdown was 2008, 2009, and then all of a sudden prices stagnated and then they’ve been bringing down fees. So while everything is getting more expensive, look at flights compared to 2010. Look at hotels. And to think that the major, the highest level opera singers in the world are getting paid the same or less than they were in 2010. When if you look at, I mean, I think teachers probably in the same boat. You know, so it’s like, it’s just, it, it, it looks incredibly glamorous. In many ways it is. But if I, if you had a, if you had a Kim Kardashian 24 hour video on me sort of thing, you would see how unglamorous it could actually be. And I like, I like to play with that in my social media as well. You know, where I’m like, “Look, okay, yeah, this is cool after party, New Year’s Eve, Metropolitan Opera, whatever. That’s great.” But then, “Look at my kid,” you know, not letting me and my wife practice because he just wants to hang out and bang on the piano and he just wants to play. ‘Cause he’s a 5-year-old, you know, he’s a 6-year-old. He is, he’s, he’s just at these le—so it’s, I don’t know, it’s. It’s just tough. And anyone that you see, that you see is successful, it doesn’t matter who they are. They’ve worked hard to get to that, that place. I, I mean, quick story, I was at the Grammys, which all of a sudden, you know, well, Grammys, whatever. I’m not mentioning it for the Grammys. I mention it because I gave a speech when we won for LA Opera’s. It doesn’t matter. I, I’m not trying to even say the Grammys, I’m just trying to say I had nothing in common with those people in that room.

Michelle Lynne: Well, you won a Grammy. We can say that. That’s very cool.

Lucas Meachem: Yeah, I, yes, I guess I did. But, but the, the thing was, I was in this room with people that sing into microphones for a living, and I don’t sing into microphones. And I said, “I have so little in common with you out there, but what every single person in this room has, which is, which is proven by the fact that you’re in this room, that we all worked hard to get where we are.” We all did the grind. We grinded it out to be able to be where we are, to be nominated and potentially win a Grammy tonight. And like there were like three people that got applauses in their speech and I got an applause for my speech. And that’s my point though, is that when you see somebody that is successful or looks successful to you, it’s because they have worked hard to become successful. There are very few people out there that are like, “Oh, they were just handed it. Oh, they’re born with a spoon in the mouth. Oh, they’re just good looking. So they got.” You know, hard to get where they are. And it doesn’t matter if they’re the annoying person that’s, you know, like on social media that you scroll right through and it doesn’t go in your algorithm, or if it’s, if it’s somebody that you like a lot, they worked hard to get there to be in front of your eyes and there’s something to respect about that.

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And it sounds like you had that common thread for everyone in the room that night to say, “Hey, I see you and I validate what it took for you to be even sitting here.”

Lucas Meachem: Yeah. Yeah. Because I knew nothing about their business. Like I just, I know nothing about that side of the business. The recording industry is a, a complete anomaly to me. I don’t know anything about it. I know how to get up on stage and make a sound that you can hear with 3,000 people in the house over an orchestra, of course. And I mean, it’s a very specialized skill. And that’s about, that’s what I do.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Can we talk a bit about your collaboration with Irena and how you guys navigate a marriage and collaborative work and raising your son and the travel and her gorgeous outfits? I mean, I am her biggest, like I found her on Instagram because she was doing that vlog of her skincare in flight, and I was like, “I need everything this girl has!” I am such a fan.

Lucas Meachem: Oh, this is every flight. There’s a moment where she says, “Do you want, I just do this?”

Michelle Lynne: Yeah,

Lucas Meachem: And she goes, you know,

Michelle Lynne: You’re gonna look so good in 30 years because of her. So you know, you got a lot to—

Lucas Meachem: Oh, I have a whole facial routine because of her. It used to be bar of soap once a week. Done, you know, and now it’s like, “Oh, I’ve got lotions and potions.” It’s like, it’s like the movie Hocus Pocus 3 up in my bathroom when I go to bed.

Michelle Lynne: That’s amazing.

Lucas Meachem: Oh, sorry. Where are we going with this?

Michelle Lynne: Yeah. No, no. I just wanted to what, how is it to work with your wife? How have you guys navigated your projects? I mean, I was listening to your album this morning, Shall We Gather? I thought that was so beautiful.

Lucas Meachem: Thank you. Uh, learning curves everywhere. Learning curves everywhere because working together and, and being married, couple, lovers, parents, we wear so many hats together. And the overarching theme that we have to have at all time is patience and respect.

Michelle Lynne: Wow.

Lucas Meachem: And that is not always easy with the life that we live and and forgiveness, if I’m being honest. That’s a really big one. I—

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Lucas Meachem: To myself sometimes. If Irena says something, she has a tone or she has whatever, whatever’s going on, I’m like, “Do you think she’s trying to hurt you?” My inner dialogue. “Do you think she’s trying to do?” I will forgive her so many things before I say something to her, because I know she’s dealing with a lot. It’s hard to be who she is. It’s hard to do all the things she does. And I’ll say about social media, she is my social media guru. She has so many amazing ideas. We are collaborators to the extreme. We make it all happen together. And, uh, she’ll have an idea and we’ll set it up and we’ll just knock it out. Or I’ll have an idea and it’s just, I, it, I am so fortunate to, I, I don’t know. I just can’t imagine. I don’t, I don’t wanna set up any unrealistic expectations for anyone that’s looking for a partner out there to be able to do all the things Irena does, you know, ’cause she’s an incredible mom, an incredible musician, incredible wife, an incredible social media collaborator, an incredible teacher of our son. Uh, she’s an incredible traveler. She loves. You just have to find the things it, the, the more things you can love together and the more respect you can have for each other, the better off you’ll be in the long run as a couple.

Michelle Lynne: I have admired your marriage for so long, just from what you’ve allowed us to see through your posts and watching how much respect you do show each other even in the social media setting. So thank you for being an example. I know a lot of people listening, um, have questions around marriage and kids and how to make it all work as a traveling artist. So I think having examples like you guys through thick and thin, through the, the difficulties. No one’s pretending things are easy or perfect, but just watching people like figure it out as you go with patience, respect, as you’re saying. That’s a huge example for people.

Lucas Meachem: Yeah, well, humility’s a big part of it, too, because. I, I couldn’t have been the person that I am when I married Irena 10 years before, or five years before even. You know, it’s like growth comes in different ways. And, uh, and if you find yourself in a situation out there and you’re looking at from the outside in saying, “Oh, he makes it look so easy.” It’s easy. It’s always hard. But what’s really important is figuring out what you need as a person. I am a needy person. I am a selfish, needy person who wants my family. I want my people with me as much as they can be with me. I am lucky enough to have gotten to a point in my career that I can make it happen, and I can bring them with me. Right now I feel like I’m sacrificing a lot here in Florence because my son is not with me because he just started school, a private school, and yeah. And so he, uh, because they were supposed to come to Fale with me and be in Florence here, and, um, because it was the beginning of the school year, we decided it would be best for him to start school with all the kids and not be the kid that comes in a month and a half later and then start school. So he gets a good fresh start. The place, in the program. And I’ve been here in Florence by myself for three weeks, which I, I mean, Florence is great. I don’t mean to complain. I’m just saying I don’t have my people with me, and that is difficult for me.

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Lucas Meachem: Find what works for you, find what you need, find what you want. And, but inside of yourself, not, don’t, don’t take into consideration the relationship yet. Think, “What do I need? What do I want?” Then ask your partner what they need and what they want, and find a way together to make as many of those boxes, check as many of those boxes as you can. And I think that’s, that’s, that’s a good way to start trying to maintain a career in opera with a family.

Michelle Lynne: That’s amazing. Um, thank you so much for everything you’ve shared. I think we touched on so many different topics. I have much more, I’m gonna definitely have your wife on so I can get her side of, uh, the, the story too.

Lucas Meachem: She’ll talk your ear off. She’s—

Michelle Lynne: I can’t wait. Yeah, I would love it. Um, is there anything that, uh, we didn’t mention that you would love to share?

Lucas Meachem: Yeah. Uh, I don’t know, I, I’m feeling so, I don’t know. This has been such a wonderful interview. I, I just, for anyone out there listening or watching at home, just know that this is a difficult thing to do. And it’s okay. That opera is difficult because anything worth doing is going to be difficult. And the more you can give to it, the more you sacrifice, the more you get out. And it just know that that, that from the get-go, it is a difficult thing to do. So if you’re feeling it’s difficult, if you’re down about it, if you’re having a hard time, know that. That’s simply part of the journey of not just this career, but of life itself. Just keep going with it in any direction you see fit and trust inside your heart that you know the direction that’s best. ‘Cause there’s so many times where I knew the right thing and if I hadn’t chosen the path that I felt was right, made a mistake. And so know that it’s within you and that this is just hard and that you’re gonna get through it.

Michelle Lynne: That’s amazing. That’s such great counsel for everyone listening. Thank you so much, Lucas, for your time. I know you have a big opening tomorrow night.

Lucas Meachem: I do.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah. So… toi Toi Toi We’ll be cheering you on and, uh, would love to get to hear you live one day. I’m gonna make that happen. I have your schedule. I know where you are next summer. Maybe you don’t, but I looked it up. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna come find you guys and or maybe in Minneapolis, you ever know. Thank you so much for your time and for everybody listening, go follow Lucas, your socials, uh, Lucas Meachem.

Lucas Meachem: That’s it.

Michelle Lynne: That’s it. Go. Go check out all of his great stuff. His vlogs, his behind the scenes. We love it. Thanks for being here, everybody. And Lucas, thank you so much.

Lucas Meachem: Pleasure. Bye y’all.