Making money on YouTube For Musicians with Eric violinist

Michelle Lynne: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Fearless Artist Podcast. I’m your host, Michelle Lynne, and today I have violinist Eric Mrugala on. Eric, welcome.

Eric Mrugala: Hi, Michelle. Pleasure to speak with you and good to reconnect after Berlin.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah, we met at the Classical Next conference. If you guys have been listening to the show, I did a deep dive debrief on the conference two weeks ago. And Eric, I just saw that you were doing also blogs, vlogs about the conference on your YouTube channel.

Eric Mrugala: Yeah. So, um, after the podcast episode, I, uh, feel free for people to check out on my channel…

Michelle Lynne: I…

Eric Mrugala: Um, I’m doing a little vlog series. Um, when I first, when I first came to Berlin, I was trying to find a theme for doing these vlogs, um, just to kind of get people aware of what’s happening in the world of classical music and what is next in classical music. Haha. And, um…

Michelle Lynne: Good branding.

Eric Mrugala: That I pretty much had for myself, like, “Is classical music dead?” That…

Michelle Lynne: Oh, wow.

Eric Mrugala: That was, that was the big question for me. Like, “Is classical music that dead?” And, um, to spoiler alert, I don’t think it is, but I think it’s definitely going through some rough patches right now. And I think this conference was an excellent example of people trying to figure out what to do and how to kind of combat, you know, social media and trying to get new audiences and trying to revitalize their programming so that way they get new audiences. So I think those are, um, probably you, after, after the conference, you probably maybe experienced this more or less, where a lot of people are just trying to figure things out.

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Eric Mrugala: Like the next upcoming season.

Michelle Lynne: I would love to hear more about this. Can you just introduce yourself first for our audience or anybody who doesn’t know yet?

Eric Mrugala: Sure. So my name is Eric Mrugala. I’m a violinist based in Boston, Massachusetts. I’m an American violinist but of Polish descent, so I’m no stranger to Europe. So it was very, um, it was, it was very exciting to be, um, in Germany for the first time, but also just professionally speaking, being there as a mentor on YouTube marketing. Um, as people may or may not know, that I started YouTube around five years ago, and it was more so a project that I, I started because during the COVID pandemic, a lot of my students just needed some guidance on violin techniques that I just couldn’t be there in person to teach them. So I just started posting YouTube videos, and a lot of the parents had a lot of the same questions, so I would also just be sending these videos. And I also have a friend from Ecuador, actually coincidentally, that I’ll be meeting today, again for the first time in a, in a long time. And back then we were all trying to figure out how to make a living because you have your entire arm cut off in terms of streams of income, and you’re just trying to figure out what to do.

Michelle Lynne: Right.

Eric Mrugala: And my, my colleague from Ecuador was like, “Well, actually, you can make money on YouTube.” I go, “Okay, tell me more. I’m actually very interested in this idea.” So we’re all kind of stuck at home. I just recently got married, no kids, so I have a lot of time. So I started kind of going down this rabbit hole of what my friend was talking about. I’m like, “Okay, this is, is fascinating, and I want to learn more.” So as the algorithm does its work, you know, you start searching, you start clicking on videos, and then the YouTube starts recommending those videos. So I went on down this rabbit hole, and then I came along Mr. Beast, with probably the most of the world knows is, the most subscribers and probably the wealthiest YouTuber on the planet, right? But then I started wondering why and how is he the world’s wealthiest YouTuber? And then I started kind of digging down deeper into this idea of like, “Oh, maybe, you know, people are making money on YouTube. This is very fascinating.” And then I started thinking of like, back when Justin Bieber in the pop world, he was, he was discovered on YouTube. And a lot of these artists, even in the classical music world, a lot of people started on social media, like on Instagram, and then they got record label deals with Sony or Warner Classics or whoever, whatever the case may be. So I started going down this rabbit hole and started to really embrace the idea. I’m like, “Okay, if I really want to earn a living, I think it’s really healthy to diversify.” And this was part of the talk that I had in the mentor sessions in Berlin, is it’s really good business practice to be able to diversify your income streams.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Eric Mrugala: If you are a performer, that’s excellent. But you should also be maybe teaching a little bit. You should also maybe be doing weddings, or you should also be doing a bit of YouTube on the side and get sponsored deals, or also make money through Google AdSense revenue. So I think it’s just very healthy to diversify, and if COVID taught us anything, it’s, it’s really good to do that because if your ticket sales are just gone overnight, then… the, the phrase that I liked, that I liked to say back in Berlin was, “Don’t want an entire arm cut off. I just want it to feel more like a pinch when you lose that income revenue stream.”

Michelle Lynne: Right.

Eric Mrugala: So as a business model, I think it’s really good and really healthy to diversify so that way you can weather any storm.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah, absolutely. Portfolio careers is something that we talk a lot about in the Fearless Artist because most musicians are doing more than one thing, and there’s a lot of good reasons for that. A lot of them have multiple skills and strengths that they want to monetize. People have different interests, but also, as you’re saying, if you do lose your source of income stream, it’s nice to have other things to fall back on. Can you give us like an overview of what you were teaching at the Berlin conference?

Eric Mrugala: Yeah, so it was pretty much about that. So the, the idea of like being able to monetize your YouTube channel, understanding what the monetization policies are. So if anyone is listening for the first time, what does it mean to be monetized on YouTube? What it means is that your YouTube channel can now earn money through advertisements. So you probably have seen, you clicked on a video, you’ve seen a couple advertisements. So Google takes a cut and then the creator takes a cut. Google is pretty much saying thank you to the creator for giving you a slice of that ad revenue. Now, different topics and different niches have different payment, uh, scales. Like we call that revenue per mile… so mile in Latin means a thousand. So this is how much or cost per mile, this is how much the advertisement is paying per thousand views on your channel or based on this video, uh, in, in simple terms. But, uh, the, but going back to your question regarding the mentorships, it was mostly like, “How can I create connection with my audience online and also earn revenue from that?”

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Eric Mrugala: A lot of musicians struggle with being too sleazy or being too salesy and promoting their stuff.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Eric Mrugala: And the argument I’m saying is, well, you can ask on your videos and it doesn’t cost you anything, and you’ll be surprised by whatever person around the world will be able to, to connect with your content. An example that I gave was, I gave a live stream YouTube tutorial, live stream, people asking questions. I’m just simply answering for an hour, and there was a guy from the Philippines that donated like 20 bucks for me answering his question, and you never know who you’re going to touch out there because…

Michelle Lynne: Hmm.

Eric Mrugala: The right wording or the right connection. Like to me, I’m speaking directly into the camera so that I can make a connection with you and connection with the audience. Right? I, I didn’t know how to…

Michelle Lynne: It’s…

Eric Mrugala: In the…

Michelle Lynne: It’s one of the first things I noticed because I’ve never had a podcast guest looking directly at me. I’m a little bit like, whoa, this is, uh, yeah. I love it.

Eric Mrugala: But again, this is part of the practice, right? This is something that I was not comfortable with at first.

Michelle Lynne: So you’re looking in the lens right now, right? Like you’re just talking? Yeah.

Eric Mrugala: So that way…

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Eric Mrugala: I make a connection with you and your audience, so that way…

Michelle Lynne: Okay. I’m going to, I’m going to try to do this too, the whole episode.

Eric Mrugala: Yeah, it’s, believe it or not, it’s, it’s quite a challenge, and I will be kind of like looking up and down. But, but you just never know who you’re going to connect with out there. And you never, you just never know, like until you ask like, “Hey, it would mean a lot if you subscribe to the channel. I make violin tutorial videos. If it, if, if you’re not a subscriber, that’s fine, but if you found this video valuable, then share with another person who may find this tutorial helpful.”

Michelle Lynne: Okay. I hear you. I, I completely get it, like the audience building and connection. That’s fine. But that’s Instagram for me. Like why YouTube, why and how do you get musicians onto YouTube?

Eric Mrugala: Uh, I think YouTube is very underrated in that sense.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah. I…

Eric Mrugala: I think…

Michelle Lynne: That’s why I’m curious.

Eric Mrugala: Um, with Instagram, you are building connection, right? And I think the classical music world generally gravitates towards Instagram.

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Eric Mrugala: And it’s very, it’s pocket friendly, it’s mobile. You can do everything from your phone. But me personally, I like the fact that I can, maybe this is just a personal thing, but I like doing stuff through my computer and editing stuff through my computer. We, as musicians, we deal with a lot of anxiety, and to me, I don’t want to continue to doom scroll about what people are doing. I just kind of do my own thing on YouTube. And I found the most success on YouTube. Like I think I…

Michelle Lynne: Oh, wow.

Eric Mrugala: Have subscribers on Instagram, but the idea of YouTube that inst… what differs from Instagram is that Instagram doesn’t really pay its creators that well.

Michelle Lynne: Right.

Eric Mrugala: It does give you an outlet to create brand connections and brand views… you’ll see like brand sponsorship or business chats, but it very rarely will Instagram pay you. Uh, per mil, per thousand views based on a video that is gaining a lot of attention. Right? With TikTok, you have the, like the creator fund. That started a little while ago. Instagram…

Michelle Lynne: Not for Canadians.

Eric Mrugala: Oh, not for Canadian. So I…

Michelle Lynne: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eric Mrugala: The American market right now. So…

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Eric Mrugala: American market, but with YouTube, YouTube really values its creators and will thank you with ad revenue based on the popularity of your video, right? So to me, what’s really brilliant about YouTube is that you can make a video once and it’ll make money for you while you sleep. And Instagram doesn’t do that. With Instagram, you, you have to continually engage with your audience, while I’ve already did a lot of the work once, and then YouTube is just trying to find the right person for that right video. So the YouTube algorithm is so complex that because you have maybe 10 or 15 views, that means, it doesn’t mean that YouTube has given up on your video, it…

Michelle Lynne: Okay, that’s good because this podcast is on YouTube and we have about 12 views per video. So if you’re listening to this podcast, please go watch it on YouTube and give me another view there. Eric, can you just explain to us…

Eric Mrugala: Very, but very quickly, Michelle. Each view is a human being and people forget about that.

Michelle Lynne: True. That’s very true. Can you just remind us what it means to be monetized, like 4,000 watch hours? What’s the specifics?

Eric Mrugala: Yes. So when, when I started five years ago, there was only one way to get monetized, and that was I have to have a thousand subscribers and then 4,000 watch time hours. So…

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Eric Mrugala: Around people have to be watching your content for 4,000 watch hours and then a thousand subscribers. And then you also have to have no copyright strikes.

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Eric Mrugala: And what that means is probably music related, copyright strikes, or you’re taken… you take, like, you split screen recording content from another creator and put it on yours. YouTube is like really good at trying to catch that. So if you have copyright strike, then you won’t get monetized. But if you don’t, then good for you. Right? And then usually it takes about a, a month for revenue to start flowing in. In the beginning, you’re going to get pennies or cents every day because. Is trying to figure out who the audience is and who’s clicking, and the advertisers are trying to figure out who you are as a, as a creator. They’ll start bidding on your content. That’s, and that’s pretty much how it works. So each niche has, um, higher revenue, uh, per mil, and some niches have a little bit lower. But the beautiful thing, uh, with these organizations at Berlin Classical Next, is that they may have 500 subscribers, but that doesn’t mean you only monetize via Google AdSense. You can use YouTube as a funnel towards purchasing tickets or merchandise or CD sales. It’s, use YouTube as this bubble and then you branch out. And I think that’s what’s so brilliant about YouTube because the number one search engine in the world is Google, and who owns YouTube? Google. So therefore, it’s the second largest search engine in the world. So if you create content for people to search for and they discover you, and that, that’s how you become more successful.

Michelle Lynne: Amazing. So how have you used your channel, as you’re saying, as kind of like a top of funnel visibility marketing strategy besides just getting monetized through YouTube?

Eric Mrugala: So for me, I really position myself as more of a violin educator, as…

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Eric Mrugala: As a violin educator and creator, because I found that, you know, I am no Itzhak Perlman. I wish I was, but I’m not. And I wish I, you know, I wish I was Vadim Gluzman and all these great violinists. I just simply am not one of those guys. But, uh, but people around me, and I think this is also just good business practice trying to figure out, like, if you don’t know what your niche is and if you know, if you don’t know who you are, ask people around you what you’re good at. And people said, “You’re a really good teacher, and I think you could, you, the way you explain things is people just get it and they click.” So you start paying attention to what people say around you, and you start creating content regarding that. And then if it clicks, then that’s fantastic. That’s the audience giving you a thumbs up that you’re doing a good job. For me, that was a, that was pretty much the case where I wanted to position myself as a violin educator…

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Eric Mrugala: So that… I could also create evergreen content. And if anybody is familiar with an evergreen tree in the United States or North America, evergreens, they stay green all year long.

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Eric Mrugala: So you create content that is evergreen content, so therefore in any season, people will be watching those videos. And…

Michelle Lynne: So if you, yeah, sorry. If you get monetized now, does it pay back retroactively your past videos? So you’re saying evergreen content?

Eric Mrugala: That’s right. So your videos from five years ago is still making money.

Michelle Lynne: Okay. Amazing. So how can we help everyone listening to get started? Because this sounds like we’re all sitting on a goldmine and not taking advantage of it. ‘Cause you’re literally the only musician that I know who’s taking YouTube seriously. Everyone in my circles are not, I mean, I spent most of my life trying to convince people to post their playing on Instagram. So to when I saw your session, like I was sorry to not be able to attend ’cause I was doing mine at the same time.

Eric Mrugala: Which, by the way, I would have loved to really dive into your session. I think, I think that’s one thing that would’ve been really cool is that if the other mentors can attend the other mentor sessions, but…

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Eric Mrugala: Shout out to you because you have, you know, based on your Instagram stories, you had a full house of people trying to figure out what branding is. So, you know, good for you. But, you’re talking about the goldmine of YouTube. It goes back to how underrated YouTube is, because…

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Eric Mrugala: It, I don’t mind giving information out for free, you know, and it’s a matter of the execution of that information. And how much…

Michelle Lynne: You mean educational content on the violin, right? Is that what you mean?

Eric Mrugala: Just in general, like if you…

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Eric Mrugala: If you decide to take YouTube seriously.

Michelle Lynne: Okay. Okay. Got it.

Eric Mrugala: But I think if people take YouTube seriously, you have no idea the type of meetings you’ll have, the type of collaborations you’ll get. Um, I have brands reaching out to me, uh, regarding product reviews because I don’t just position myself just to do violin education videos. It’s mostly like everything that is related to the violin, meaning how do you get performances? How was I able, like do a vlog, how I was able to perform at Carnegie Hall, like what are the steps that I took to get there? Um, some of the products that I use and we can even talk about a little bit of affiliate marketing and how I earn money that way.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah, please.

Eric Mrugala: Yeah, and then everything starting the violin is based on the channel. So if you take a look at my channel banner, I make violin tutorial product videos. The message is clear. People know what they’re getting themselves into. And you go straight into the content. And that’s another thing to talk about. When it comes to the Berlin Conference, being really clear on who your audience is.

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Eric Mrugala: Then you start making videos and you start getting feedback from the algorithm, and you have all these data analytics to see who your audience is watching from what their age is. Is it mostly male, female, non-binary? That is information because if you are catering, you’d be surprised who’s actually watching your audience and that you can make data-driven decisions. And where you want to do concerts or where you want to do touring. So if…

Michelle Lynne: Hmm.

Eric Mrugala: An individual artist, for example, and you’re making content that people love to watch in Turkey, for instance, you’re not going to make a tour in Canada. You’re going to go to where your audience is, which is Turkey. But you would never have known that if you didn’t start with YouTube and get the data analytics. So then you start talking to people, concert promoters in Turkey. Then you start booking venues in Turkey, and then you never, and then you’re actually not wasting time and money spending it on elsewhere, but you’re spending time and money on the resources that you have to spend it on, where people are actually going to consume the content. I think that’s also a very important thing that we talked about in Berlin is get the, you get the data, and then…

Michelle Lynne: Yep.

Eric Mrugala: Data driven decisions for your organization or for yourself or for your arts group.

Michelle Lynne: Amazing. And how have you used your analytics to position or change your content strategy? Or like how has that informed you?

Eric Mrugala: That’s a good question because sometimes videos don’t… don’t…

Michelle Lynne: I…

Eric Mrugala: With viewers, meaning they’re just not successful. Sometimes low viewer rates, um, sometimes very slow audience retention. So that’s the data that I use specifically. I specifically use, and this is another thing that we’ve talked about, for the first 30 seconds, people, YouTube will tell you, “Okay, people are dropping you off on this video at this rate, or 50% of people are staying on your video. Good job. That’s higher than your channel average.” So I try to look at the data to see if the topic sticks if people are watching. So the audience retention. So for me, like if I’m making a violin video on intonation, right? I have a bunch of videos on intonation, but what makes this video different that’s doing well compared to my other ones?

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Eric Mrugala: Right? So then you look at, “Okay, this video is being watched from Google search.” Or, “This video is being watched from DuckDuckGo or from WhatsApp.” People are sending it or people are sharing it around, right? So you take a look at those analytics and then you, you just again, make those decisions for your channel. So for me, I try to trend surf, that that’s a term that you can use. Um, you try to make a video about a specific topic that’s trending on Google. That could, that could happen in the world of classical music. Like you can make a, a topic video, you could be an influencer on specific classical music news like violin channel or a Classic FM or those, those big organizations. So you trend surf there. Um, in terms of other things, I just try to, I try to research the keywords.

Michelle Lynne: Right.

Eric Mrugala: I’m, if I’m researching keywords, I, I’m not wast… again, it’s not, I’m not wasting time making a video that people are not going to watch. So I go on Google or I go on Google Trends, which is, a website you can go to trends.google.com. You can, you can take a look at what people are searching around the world. You, you type in violin. Then you start there and then you start being very, very specific.

Michelle Lynne: Absolutely. So in terms of like you’re making videos based on what people are searching for, then you’re saying brands are reaching out to you. Are you getting private students or are you teaching, I think you have a violin course, right?

Eric Mrugala: Yes. So again, that’s another way to monetize outside of YouTube. So I do have an online violin school, and the, and the idea is to reach the person who does not have access to quality private violin lessons or they didn’t have the time during their life, and all of a sudden they’re retired and they want to do violin as a hobby. People are purchasing in the course. So, you know, people pay a small fee, they pay the fee, and they’re happy to pay the fee ’cause you’re providing them a service.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Eric Mrugala: They…

Michelle Lynne: A ton of value.

Eric Mrugala: It’s a ton of value. Right. But there’s, there’s a saying that like, you know, about being salesy, right? You, people give you a dollar bill, that’s just simply a token of appreciation, the work that you’re doing.

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Eric Mrugala: About being salesy, right? There’s an exchange happening. You’re providing value, and then in exchange for that value, you, you require some monetary, uh, a monetary thing, which is, which is dollars or euros or whatever in your country. For me, I, I don’t, almost like, um, like you’re, you’re doing a mission for someone. Like, “Okay, this is the work I put in. I want to help you just to help support me as a creator. This is, I just ask for this in return. You can find other creators doing this for free. You can watch on YouTube, but I, I really dive in specifically in this course, so that way you don’t have to waste time.” You know, there’s, there’s a value exchange there. So, yeah. So again, YouTube being a funnel, I do a topic about that course. For instance, like a violin bow hold, and actually, “Oh, if you want to learn more, actually I have a violin bow hold course. Then the link below if you want to check it out. I’m offering, going to discount for first time learners. Go ahead. And the first lesson’s on me.”

Michelle Lynne: That’s amazing. Yep.

Eric Mrugala: So you, you create the value and if people don’t want it, it’s not, it’s not that it’s a no, it’s just maybe a not yet.

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think people…

Eric Mrugala: Need to understand that in the world of sales.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah. No, I like that you’re bringing up the sales because a lot of musicians have a hard time with getting paid for, you know, our work because it’s like art. You know? There’s that old mindset of if you’re actually passionate about it, you would do it for free. So I like the idea of exchanging money for value, where, you know, even if you’re on a concert stage, you’re giving something of value to your audience. You’re entertaining your audience. You’re providing this experience that is worth being compensated for, and that can really help a lot of people listening who have a hard problem with like the salesy aspect. I know when I’m inviting people into our community, it’s a paid membership, but we talk about how they’re going to feel after we talk about the inspiration they’re going to get. We talk about how they’re going to achieve their goals more quickly because they’re in a structure and a support system as opposed to being on their own. Um, that’s our Fast Forward Membership. And when I talk about it as a community, people understand that it’s a group to lift them up and to bring them closer to what they actually want. So that’s helped me too, because in the beginning when we started our mastermind, like it was all of our friends who joined instantly. And so it was like, “Well, how do I tell my friends that they need to pay me to run this thing?” But then afterwards we understood like, “Oh, we’re providing such value that it makes sense.” And also if we are going to continue, we being Deanna and I, and also pay all of the software that it takes to host everything that we’re doing, the Zoom fees, the website fees, like there just has to be money involved.

Eric Mrugala: Yeah, and those are just simply operational costs. Like this is, yeah, yes, you are paying for this, but this is also to help. Create the best experience for you. This is to help. This is to help us create the best value and experience for you. And this requires us to pay for these operational costs plus for our time. And then someone who is serious about that will, will be gladly paying because they understand from a business perspective that this is an investment for them.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah, absolutely.

Eric Mrugala: Then YouTube, even though they may not be paying for the course, they’re paying with their time. So…

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Eric Mrugala: The ads. So either way, you, they’re, you’re being compensated. Instagram is, um, again, there. If you don’t post for a year, like I, I actually did an experiment where I didn’t, I wasn’t on Instagram for a year. So you can see that my content goes back, maybe about maybe six or seven months until recently when I started becoming more engaged with, uh, Classical Next. But I didn’t do much because I was focusing on YouTube. And that’s another piece of advice that I want to give to your audience today is if you’re, if you’re trying to reach everybody, you’ll, you’ll reach no one. So if you focus on one platform, whether it’s YouTube, whether it’s Instagram, Facebook, just dedicate yourself to that one platform because you don’t have a team of people doing everything all at once. And if you try to use some of the software that kind of has one piece of content and distributes everywhere, you’re going to see that not everyone reacts to the content the same. Sometimes you’re going to get a better reaction on Instagram rather than Facebook, and sometimes you’ll get a better in, uh, reaction on X Twitter versus Instagram. So you just never know where your audience is going to click. So just focus on one where you feel like you are passionate about. Or even Blue Sky, that’s a new one. Like there’s so many different social media platforms. To be overwhelmed, just focus on one. We already live very stressful lives with musicians, so just right. So just focus on one, do your thing, do the best you can, and then go from there.

Michelle Lynne: I love that. That’s very helpful. We talk a lot about repurposing content ’cause I create pretty much exclusively for Instagram, but then we use Repurpose.io and as soon as I hit post, it goes instantly onto Pinterest, LinkedIn, TikTok, YouTube Shorts, and Facebook. And so since I started doing that, like I don’t look at my YouTube at all, but every time I go on there, there’s a few more thousand views on these Instagram reels that I made, and I thought, “Oh, this is so great,” ’cause I’m like maximizing. But I would love to be more intentional about creating for YouTube. Um, and also I wanted to say…

Eric Mrugala: It’s a different ballgame, honestly. It really is because, again, it goes back to like the audience. The audience is different.

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Eric Mrugala: If you try to generalize the audience, then you’re just going to get very vague data to, to serve your audience. So you just don’t know.

Michelle Lynne: It sounds like YouTube is actually trying to help its creators by providing all of those stats, like, “Here’s where your viewers are falling off. Here’s where they’re coming from. Here’s their demographic.”

Eric Mrugala: Yeah, and you, you could all access this information through the YouTube studio, right? You kind of have to start with like the, the, the equipment you have. Don’t go out and like, spend thousands of dollars on equipment for, and go into debt to get this equipment to then like, be like, “Oh, this is not for me.” Like, do, do work with what you have now.

Michelle Lynne: Hmm.

Eric Mrugala: The power of the smartphone right now. Like you can make videos in your pocket. It wasn’t like that 10 years ago.

Michelle Lynne: Right.

Eric Mrugala: I did it. I did it five years ago. I started my, if you take a look at my YouTube videos, I started with my phone. Like I, I just had like a tripod that I had from a little while ago. I put the tripod on with my phone on the music stand. I lifted the music stand up. It was very ghetto, guys. It was, that was not, it was not the best setup. And now you…

Michelle Lynne: My computer’s on my music stand right now for this podcast interview.

Eric Mrugala: Exactly my point. Right. So you, you build it over time.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Eric Mrugala: It, yeah, don’t, don’t go into debt just to, because everything looks flashy that I’m saying right now, but everything that I did was slow growth, very steady. And is, oh, there’s a thumbs up randomly on my computer. Okay. Nevermind. Um, but yeah, definitely. And steady wins. The wins the race. You know, definitely be the turtle versus the hare.

Michelle Lynne: Can you go back to affiliate marketing? ‘Cause I’m hearing multiple income streams. So you’ve got, YouTube is paying you for the ad revenue, then you’ve got affiliate marketing, then you’ve got your course that you’re selling, private lessons probably coming through your YouTube channel. So let’s talk about affiliate.

Eric Mrugala: So if anyone who doesn’t know what affiliate marketing is, an affiliate marketing is pretty much when you promote a product that you have not created, you’re promoting somebody else’s product, but in return you get a commission off of that. So Amazon does this pretty, pretty regularly with, um, Amazon influencers and creators. Um, and for me, I, I have a couple, uh, companies and organizations that I work with, and I get a commission. In return, I, I do a video. And this is, again, another way to help support the channel. I’m providing a video of a product that I use personally that, yeah, the, maybe the company has sent me this product to try out, but I actually use this product. I’m like, you know, as a thank you, um, here’s, here’s a discount code. 15% off that the company has so generously given to me. Use this link, and by using this link, you support the channel this way, right? And also, just for regulatory purposes, you do want to disclose that in your video so that way you’re not, um, in trouble by the FCC in the United States at least. So you actually do want to disclose that because you’re being honest and upfront. And YouTube has now done a really good job where if you get paid for a sponsorship or you’re doing a product review and you get compensated via the product, then there’s a little button that says, “This video contains a paid endorsement,” right? So you probably have seen vloggers or YouTubers. Now in the, in the left corner, it says, “This video contains a paid advertisement.” Now what that button is for. So that way you are disclosing to the audience that, okay, this is a video about this particular topic and about this, about this product, and you’re disclosing that information. Again, affiliate marketing, you’re just recommending a product that people will use on your channel. So for me, popular items may be violin strings.

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Eric Mrugala: A music stand or even violins, right? And that actually has, again, that has the power of that evergreen content. So if you make a video from five years ago about a product you have, you, I cannot tell you how many times I got commission sales of a product that I made a video about five years ago.

Michelle Lynne: Wow.

Eric Mrugala: Small. And this is, again, it’s to help you build a lasting career. And to be, to be real frank with the audience, you might get injured while playing your instrument. That’s common. You might have tendonitis, you might have broken a finger accidentally, and then you have that revenue stream cut off from you. But if you position yourself in a way that, “Okay, I’m actually making sales from this area,” then you actually are worried less. You can focus on recovery, you can focus on, uh, mental health, you can focus on extra things. That’s, that’s the power of YouTube. And I mean, you can do that on Instagram, but it’s not as intuitive as in, in my opinion, as YouTube. Yeah, so that, and just to kind of, you know, close a case on affiliate marketing, I think it’s a really good way to position yourself from a business perspective, again, because if you’re a teacher, if you’re a performer. I can imagine for you, Michelle, you probably use your iPad for performances, right?

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Eric Mrugala: And you…

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Eric Mrugala: A pedal, am I right?

Michelle Lynne: Yes, sir.

Eric Mrugala: You probably could make a YouTube video and be like, “Hey, this is the pedal that I use and I love it. This is how I use it.” Then you, you provide a link. Like, “And if you click the link, just to let you know, I do, I do get something out of it, but it’s just to help support the channel.” And again, it’s to help support the operation cost of you making that video. So that’s just one way to think about affiliate marketing. It’s not sleazy. You’re using products that you use already and you’re just recommending it to someone else.

Michelle Lynne: I love that, but just for my own sake, don’t I have to then make a deal with the company of the Bluetooth pedal first?

Eric Mrugala: Not necessarily. If you bought it, you can…

Michelle Lynne: But how do, how does it, so YouTube does affiliate without, so I don’t go through the company. The money goes through YouTube.

Eric Mrugala: Okay. So that now there’s a technicality there. So let’s say…

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Eric Mrugala: You, um, the answer is yes, you can go through YouTube, but YouTube has more of the partnerships with like the bigger companies, like the big Fortune 500 companies like Walmart, Home Depot, types of companies. Like with small creators like us, with classical musicians, you either have to go maybe through Amazon, you get a…

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Eric Mrugala: Through Amazon. So if people click on the link on Amazon and that’s the pedal, you get a commission off that.

Michelle Lynne: And how do I sign up for that? I just go directly to Amazon. Do they reject you or does like anyone who applies gets that?

Eric Mrugala: Um…

Michelle Lynne: Do you need a certain amount of followers?

Eric Mrugala: You do, you probably do have to have an, like an audience, a little bit, like maybe 100, 200 subscribers. Really something small. But you do have to submit your social media information as you are applying for this marketing, uh, for influencer marketing. But it’s not a lot and most people get approved because it’s, again, it’s Amazon’s best interest for them to make money. And if you have…

Michelle Lynne: Right.

Eric Mrugala: That is engaged. That’s another way for you to make money and then for them to make money. Now, there are different companies that offer different percentages on affiliate marketing. So that’s where I don’t think, uh, a Bluetooth pedal will be sold at a very small shop. You know, it’ll…

Michelle Lynne: Right.

Eric Mrugala: Be sold at like a Guitar Center in the States, or, um, uh, which by the way, they do have an affiliate marketing. Program for Guitar Center or Amazon. You want to be looking at these, bigger marketplaces where people have memberships too. Like everybody almost has an Amazon account, so they can just click and buy and then you get the, you get the commission from the link and then you go from there.

Michelle Lynne: I have to ask about this because I just forgot my pedal like a few weeks ago, and I made this whole Instagram video series around like, “Oh no, Michelle loses her pedal.” So if I put that on YouTube, does the video have to be a certain length? ‘Cause all of my Instagram videos are like 90 seconds max.

Eric Mrugala: At that point, like if you have a specific brand deal, we call those brand deals. If you have a specific brand deal with the company, then there are some, then there are some specifications that you and the brand have to talk about. Right? But if you own the pedal and you just want to make a video about it, that’s fine, right? That’s, that’s completely up to you. But let’s say…

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Eric Mrugala: You get paid from the brand to make a video about this, so you’re…

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Eric Mrugala: And you’re getting paid…

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Eric Mrugala: I…

Michelle Lynne: Right.

Eric Mrugala: Set up an agreement, just a business agreement, understanding what the deliverables are.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Eric Mrugala: I’m going to make a video that is six or seven minutes long, um, I’m going to talk about this, this, and this. And if you have any questions, I would love for you to get in touch with me regarding what you want in the video. That would be…

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Eric Mrugala: That would…

Michelle Lynne: So…

Eric Mrugala: The email…

Michelle Lynne: Yeah. Yeah. But in terms of affiliate, I just need to go find an affiliate link for this Bluetooth pedal and get this video on YouTube.

Eric Mrugala: Exactly. It’s…

Michelle Lynne: That’s going to be my homework from you.

Eric Mrugala: Yeah.

Michelle Lynne: Okay. So I’m sure at the Berlin conference you had many people in your session who were just like brand new. Maybe they’ve never posted on YouTube before. What is your expert advice for getting started with all of this? ‘Cause this is amazing what you’re sharing with us.

Eric Mrugala: Um, you gotta start messy and you gotta start really messy. You’re, you’re going to, you’re going to be very upset with your first 10 videos.

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Eric Mrugala: You’re going to be very upset…

Michelle Lynne: This doesn’t sound promising, Eric.

Eric Mrugala: But you know what though? This is for the better good for your channel long term. Because the only, the only thing that, the only valuable advice I can give you is that everybody on YouTube starts at zero. Everybody starts at zero subscribers. So Esther Abrami, violin content creator on YouTube and Instagram, started from zero. You one of your guests, Nikki Naghavi, who I actually interviewed on my violin podcast, also…

Michelle Lynne: Oh!

Eric Mrugala: Started from zero.

Michelle Lynne: She’s so great. Love Nikki.

Eric Mrugala: She’s awesome. She’s Boston local too.

Michelle Lynne: Oh, yeah.

Eric Mrugala: And, um, you know, a lot of these creators, they all started from zero.

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Eric Mrugala: Started from zero from somewhere, right? So they, they just, the difference is, is that they continue to make content over a long period of time. So having, having that support system, which I think your program really does offer, which is really cool, um, having a support system with just your friends. Even friends that are outside of classical music, just say…

Michelle Lynne: Yes.

Eric Mrugala: “What I’m, hey, this is what I’m doing.”

Michelle Lynne: Amen.

Eric Mrugala: If you are a classical musician, marketing concerts to other classical musicians, those classical musicians won’t go to your concert. You know why? Because they’re also working those concerts. You want to go to other, you want to go to non-classical musicians to go to your concerts.

Michelle Lynne: Yes.

Eric Mrugala: That’s the business is, right.

Michelle Lynne: Exactly.

Eric Mrugala: Um, you go where the supply and demand is. So you just have to start messy and it’ll, it’ll not be pretty at first. Like my first video about what’s in my violin case, like the video is like very like awkward. Like it’s like really in my face. I’m just like showing products here. “What’s in my case” probably has a couple hundred views. It has, that hasn’t done really well, but, now if I’m, probably make what’s in my violin case now, it’ll probably do a lot better because the production value is a lot different. But it’s a result of me, understanding what is B-roll? What’s A-roll? What’s a different camera angle? So that way I can get the audience engaged, right? You learn that by doing, you do that by studying other creators what they’re doing. So, um, to top it off, like. Start messy, and it’ll be kind of discouraging at first, but just like when you’re in the practice room. But when you’re in the practice room, here’s, here’s why, Michelle, because if you are a classical musician, you understand what discipline is.

Michelle Lynne: Yes.

Eric Mrugala: And that you know what it takes to meet a goal, and you understand that it may take long to achieve that goal. That’s YouTube and…

Michelle Lynne: Hmm.

Eric Mrugala: Every classical listener has those skill sets. And I think that’s important. You just apply those skill sets to YouTube, and it’s brand new, but you have those, habits that you form as a classical musician, so you can totally do that. It’s not impossible. Anybody can be a YouTube creator today.

Michelle Lynne: I love it. I’m fired up. I’m going to go start my YouTube channel. I have one, I think I have like 500 subs or something. So Eric, how can, how can people find you? Do more. Okay. I’m on it. I’m on it. How can we follow you? How can, how can we binge all your content?

Eric Mrugala: Well, you can binge on YouTube. Um, you can just type in Eric the Violinist on YouTube, on the Youtube bar, and my face pops up. Or you can follow me on Instagram, Eric the Violinist, although I’m more active in the community posts on YouTube and we can get the conversation going there.

Michelle Lynne: Also one last income stream. I saw that you have like the join channel where you can pay $2.99 or $6.99 a month to have, is that exclusive content kinda like a Patreon?

Eric Mrugala: Oh, yes, yes. We’ve even, we’ve even touched this. Yeah. So this is the membership. So it’s very similar to Patreon. Um, the, the thing with Patreon and YouTube, I think this is more of like a, a personal decision versus business decision. For me, most of my audience is on YouTube, so if I try to convince my audience to go off platform to go to Patreon, I may not have a lot more success. Some creators do. Some people are primarily Patreon, which, you know, I would say take less of a cut than YouTube would.

Michelle Lynne: Okay.

Eric Mrugala: With, you know, YouTube, you have an infrastructure there. I…

Michelle Lynne: Yep.

Eric Mrugala: YouTube tastes like, takes like 30%… which, uh, for a, for a creator that has a lot of members, that might be a lot. So then eventually you might have to make a decision to move off platform. But for me, it’s just for me to provide videos ahead of schedule so people can watch the content before their actual, their actual, the release date where I do private one-on-one. Um. Violent live streams for people in the community, something like that. But yeah, that’s another income stream. That one’s a very small one. It’s not a very significant portion of my revenue stream. But…

Michelle Lynne: But it’s there and you’re building it. I just, I’m highly impressed. I think I love your passion. I love how much you know about all of this. I love how obsessed you are with the data and you’re bringing that in. It’s what you’re saying, all the skills that we’ve learned as musicians, you can bring it to other areas to help you make more income. If there was an action point that you could give our audience from today’s episode, you know what it would be?

Eric Mrugala: I, I just mentioned it actually, just to start messy, and it’s just to, so for you to just make the decision to do it, just like start messy and you’re, again, you’re going to cringe and it’s not, it’s not going to be pretty, but if you, if you just, if. If you just stay the course, that is the most important thing that just stay dedicated. Be curious on how you can improve because it’s so easy to be discouraged. You know, you have, you have a lot of people telling you, “Ah, I wouldn’t, don’t waste your time.” But no, it’s not a waste of time. It’s worth it. And I can tell you five years later that I, I’ve had build connections, I’ve built, uh, brand relationships. And I’ve just gotten to like build brand relationships that are on the same mission as I am, which is to help people become better violinists and also to help them with their music career. So it’s, you’re not, you’re not doing it for nothing. If you have that internal vision and internal mission, then everything will come into play. You just have the time. And if you have the time. If you don’t have a wife, kids, or family that you’re not, this is the time to do it. The time is now. So, um, the best, the best time to start a YouTube channel was yesterday. The second best time is today. So just, as soon as you get to office podcast people just like open a YouTube channel. It’s not, it’s not that hard. Just do it.

Michelle Lynne: I love it. Okay, guys, you’ve heard it straight from Eric’s mouth. Go start your YouTube channel. I want you to DM him when you’ve done it. I think that would make your day if you had some people saying that they started their YouTube ’cause of you.

Eric Mrugala: Yes.

Michelle Lynne: And find you on Instagram. It’s Eric the Violinist on Instagram. Is that correct?

Eric Mrugala: That’s right. Yeah.

Michelle Lynne: Perfect. Okay, and guys, I’m going to ask that you go follow the Fearless Artist Mastermind on YouTube. ‘Cause apparently I got to go for YouTube now. So thanks Eric for inspiring me.

Eric Mrugala: Michelle’s pretty face. I mean, like you get to see her pretty face and the content, her content’s amazing. Again, she’s got all this amazing resources. Just like, just hit a, hit a like and help her on the algorithm. You are the algorithm, guys. Just hit a like and subscribe. It’s really that simple.

Michelle Lynne: Okay. This needs to be like affiliate marketing. ‘Cause that was great. Thank you. Can you come on every show and say that?

Eric Mrugala: I’d love to come as co-host.

Michelle Lynne: Okay. Let’s do another show. We’ll do another episode.

Eric Mrugala: Sounds…

Michelle Lynne: Um, Eric, thanks for being here and everybody listening, be fearless. See you on the next show.