Finding Your Voice: Overcoming Fear and Embracing Purpose as an Artist

Michelle Lynne: Alright, well, welcome everybody to the Fearless Arts Podcast. I am normally your host, Michelle Lynne, but today we have a special guest who is known to many of you, Robert Bosworth, trained musician. Welcome back to the podcast for this special episode.

Robert Bosworth: Hi, Michelle. Thanks for having me again.

Michelle Lynne: You know, I really debated having you again. I thought, do I need that?

Robert Bosworth: Well, some part of you must…

Michelle Lynne: …do the,

Robert Bosworth: …because here I am.

Michelle Lynne: …do the viewers? What does the people want? That’s my number one question. 

Robert Bosworth: Did you ask them?

Michelle Lynne: Uh, no, but sometimes I, I look at the download, the download rate, and I figure out which episode has done the best, and I don’t think it was yours, but we’ve, we got you back. Sorry.

Robert Bosworth: He’s still…

Michelle Lynne: Welcome. Why don’t you, why don’t you introduce yourself for everybody who doesn’t have the pleasure of already knowing you, and tell them why you’re here today.

Robert Bosworth: Well, hi, as Michelle so eloquently pronounced, my name is Robert Bosworth and, uh, on the Instagram I go by Robert Bosworth, trained musician. I am a pianist and voice coach and singer, not as much, but I do that, uh, musician overall, who currently lives in Lexington, Kentucky, teaching at the University of Kentucky. And that’s, that’s my main thing now.

Michelle Lynne: Great. And you…

Robert Bosworth: …part two of the question. I’m here today to help you people find out more about your host, who, uh, so wonderfully does her job in asking people about their lives and their mindsets as musicians and entrepreneurs. That, uh, we wanted, we both thought, right, that it would be a great idea to delve deep into…

Michelle Lynne: …uh,

Robert Bosworth: …who is Michelle Lynne? What makes her tick? What makes her get up in the morning,

Michelle Lynne: This was your idea. Let’s be real. Oh, boy.

Robert Bosworth: …and… how she sleep at night?

Michelle Lynne: You know, these are tough questions.

Robert Bosworth: So, we’ll start…

Michelle Lynne: No.

Robert Bosworth: …start with that.

Michelle Lynne: Okay, well, welcome Robert, and I’m happy to let you host for the day. I’ve been, I’ve been doing this podcast for over a year, and I had someone tell me, I listened to every single episode, and she had a bunch of questions for me and I thought, why do you have so many questions for me when I feel like I share everything on this podcast? So then I had that thought. She said, you know, somebody should really interview you. And then three days later you texted me out of nowhere, as you usually do in the car or some, I get some little song or I get some yelling, voice message about how, “Hey, I got a great idea, I should interview you on your podcast.” And I was like, you know what? Let’s do it. So here we are.

Robert Bosworth: Here we are. The desperation came through the phone so loudly that you couldn’t resist.

Michelle Lynne: What’s the favorite, my favorite thing you’ve ever sent me through the phone was, um, well you’ve given me multiple pep talks and you’ve also, uh, did a random jingle once. So it was, uh, very encouraging. I remember saving that.

Robert Bosworth: Likewise with the pep talks for the record. By the way, this…

Michelle Lynne: And of course, you are the one who composed our fearless artist theme song, so, which everyone had heard at the beginning of this episode.

Robert Bosworth: Well, let’s see. I’m gonna try to describe my best to do the same usual thing you do and follow the flow very well.

Michelle Lynne: You do listen to every episode, so I appreciate that.

Robert Bosworth: Many of them. I think I’ve probably, uh, neglected a few, not on purpose, but…

Michelle Lynne: Did you do your hair all nice? Just to be the host of today’s podcast today? You got like the, you…

Robert Bosworth: …on a…

Michelle Lynne: …got like the TV wave going.

Robert Bosworth: No, this is what it looks like in life. Um,

Michelle Lynne: I know.

Robert Bosworth: …and I feel about as old as he is too.

Michelle Lynne: You’re younger than I am. You gotta get over this whole thing.

Robert Bosworth: Vanna, White remini, remini, reminiscences.

Michelle Lynne: Thank you. All I do is touch buttons and watch. You know, I sit at the piano and I press buttons, so it’s very similar.

Robert Bosworth: Anyway, well,

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Robert Bosworth: …that. When did you start playing the piano?

Michelle Lynne: Oh, no. Please. I hate this question. Oh my gosh. I literally hate this question so much that like one year ago, uh, Dmitri and I started this game of who gets asked this question more and he’s my…

Robert Bosworth: …start playing?

Michelle Lynne: Exactly. After every concert we started this kind of joke and we took, we like counted points. Okay. The answer’s four and I really don’t find it an interesting question. So your job as a host, I mean, we’re not…

Robert Bosworth: …well, I…

Michelle Lynne: …we’re not starting on a great foot here. Okay. Well, the box is…

Robert Bosworth: …for the people. You know.

Michelle Lynne: Okay. There you go. There’s the answer.

Robert Bosworth: Um,

Michelle Lynne: My, my mother started me.

Robert Bosworth: Another softball I had was, did you have any fears in your childhood that you have yet to overcome? Would you rather start there?

Michelle Lynne: Oh, uh, any fears in my childhood?

Robert Bosworth: Yeah.

Michelle Lynne: Um, skydiving.

Robert Bosworth: Like that and some other, uh, career questions, skydiving.

Michelle Lynne: In my childhood. Yeah. Skydiving I probably wouldn’t do. Um, what am I afraid of? You know, like that Fear Factor show where you have to eat spiders or something like that. I would just never do that. Like if I ever go on Fear Factor…

Robert Bosworth: …you…

Michelle Lynne: …no, I can’t even watch it. No. No, I didn’t watch it as a child either. Do I have any fears that I haven’t overcome? I don’t know if they came from my childhood. Yeah. Being good enough. Is that a fear?

Robert Bosworth: Did you have any, let’s take that then and transplant it into the aspect of you and your musician life. Did you have any fears early, Michelle, in terms of pianist and musician that you have overcome?

Michelle Lynne: You know what? I think my fear as a musician came later once I was no longer the big fish in a small pond. ‘Cause when I was young I was like, I was fearless. And that, this is kind of interesting because when you grow, when you have that kind of childlike innocence and you are just loving something and you’re just also good at it and people tell you that you’re good at it and you just go, you just run. It’s like I was running towards this thing and it was exciting and fun. I was playing with people and it’s not like I cared so much about getting the gold sticker at music festival, but I just, I loved the, you know, we, my teacher, she was great. We were doing concertos, we were doing four hands… we were doing eight hands projects and it’s just, I didn’t have any fear. And then I think the fear came in once. As I said, you’re no longer the big fish. You realize that, oh, like my teacher in Montreal had to break down my technique and rebuild me. Then you find out that there are kids, you know, five years younger than you that are playing bigger rep. Then you have like the competition circuit. Then you start worrying about, you know, and I think I didn’t have a filter when I was younger either. I’ve wor, I’ve worked on that a lot. So I would, you know, like I won this concerto competition and I ran around like, like, “woo-hoo, I won.” And like not having any self-awareness that other people might not like that I was sprinting around. So I, a little bit of my enthusiasm was like, not, you know, anyway. So I’ve, yeah, I think the fear came in later and all the insecurity and the doubt and like the things that I’ve had to, the perfectionism…

Robert Bosworth: But you’ve overcome that since, since it crept in.

Michelle Lynne: I have made massive,

Robert Bosworth: …morning and are crippled by fear.

Michelle Lynne: Massive progress in it. Yes, I have overcome quite a bit of it to the point where I, that’s the reason the fearless artist really started is I just share what I’m experiencing because I’m a natural sharer talker. So I get on Instagram and I’m like, “Hey, I learned this thing and I know it’s gonna help somebody out there.” And so from there, because I was fighting my own perfectionism, I’ve been able to help bring this community together of people who are overcoming their own limiting beliefs and putting themselves out there. And you know, as we call it, being fearless, but really it is like looking for your own opportunities, not believing that you have to fit into a box, not thinking that you have to be the number one best pianist to be worth calling yourself a pianist. You know that we all have a gift to share. You have a unique purpose. I mean, all of these things have come from realizing like, okay, uh, this is stuff that I’m working on.

Robert Bosworth: Yeah. Well, and you, you in your, I mean, I follow your page and we have become friends as well over the last, how long has it been? Like a year? Not even.

Michelle Lynne: Oh, I, I can’t even remember.

Robert Bosworth: I don’t know. It’s hard to track.

Michelle Lynne: The day.

Robert Bosworth: Unfriended me accidentally and then you followed me again.

Michelle Lynne: I did not.

Robert Bosworth: When you look and see, it says that this is Michelle Lynne has followed you…

Michelle Lynne: Well,

Robert Bosworth: …blank.

Michelle Lynne: …all you need to do Robert Bosworth is check when I slid into your dms, because I was like, “Yo, you’re hilarious.” And that’s how we started talking. ‘Cause I found your videos.

Robert Bosworth: Okay. Well, I’m not, I’ll do that.

Michelle Lynne: I found your videos, and I was literally going to your page. I’ve told you this before, just to like, for cathartic laughter time. I was like, this guy is so ridiculous. Like, I, I was like, okay, I go here when I need a moment. Just, I mean, it was the singer videos, it was the, the teacher stuff. And then I just, I just wrote you. I’m like, “Hey, you’re so funny.” And, but I found you and you were small. You were only like 2,000 or 3,000.

Robert Bosworth: I was small. Yes. I was small.

Michelle Lynne: You blew up. You’re taking over.

Robert Bosworth: Yeah. Well, um, well I mentioned that all to say that I’ve been following your stuff and I know part of what you talk about in terms of you saying, you know, uh, in that last answer fitting into a box, prompted, uh, the thought that you often are preaching about working in many different boxes and thriving in the, uh, portfolio career is a term that I know you’ve bandied about with several of your guests. And I wanna know, I mean, I’m curious when that realization struck you that, you know, it probably would be beneficial or maybe it you’ve always been that way,

Michelle Lynne: I…

Robert Bosworth: …it would be beneficial to, uh, work on something other than just play the piano. ‘Cause as a child, I was always just, you know, it was like, do music. That was it. Don’t worry about else. I mean, worry about stuff, but. The early parts of my career were so focused on the music making, and very little outside of the actual performing or the honing in on the artistry part. And I’m curious when the more real world practic, uh, of no, you actually need to be a well-rounded person who can network and who can do the business stuff. When that clicked for you or if you’ve just always been like that.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah, that’s an interesting question. I mean. A lot of, a few things come to mind. I grew up singing and playing the piano and doing basketball and, you know, doing a leadership club at school. So I think I always had multiple interests and things that I naturally excelled at. So when it came time to choose, I actually chose piano over basketball. Like I had the chance to stay and play in the college team in my local city, and I was like, “No, I’m gonna go to the big city Edmonton and continue my piano studies.” So, I don’t know, piano for me was never like this. A star is born and she’s gonna be the next greatest pianist. It was just like something, it was just like another thing that I really liked and I was like, I said, um, and then over the years, uh, the singing stayed with me and my, my church life as well. Like, I sing a completely different genre, so we call it like contemporary Christian music or whatever. So when you are…

Robert Bosworth: Mm-hmm.

Michelle Lynne: …in other music genres too, I kind of felt for a long time, like my life was kind of split. Like there’s like the… the pianist side and then there’s also the singing thing on the side. Or I do like clubs and stuff on the side. Um, and then the leadership stuff really came in with also like leading the music team at my church. I did a few leadership conferences. I was interested in those kind of, you know, groups, gatherings have always been a team person, basketball team, really big team player. So like, I think then I started going into more leadership skills and communication and I don’t know, I, you pick up stuff and you’re like, “oh, I like this.” And then I learned about the Ikigai, which is like your center of purpose. And that when you find something that gives you energy, that’s a really good sign that you’re in the right place. So then I kind of started noticing like, “oh, I light up when I’m around people. I light up when I’m speaking to people.” Coaching started coming in. Um. I was getting coached by a life coach at that point, and I hadn’t really stepped into coaching yet, but I was listening to like a lot of motivational speakers and like, you know, the pumping up thing has always kind of been, then I started talking on Instagram stories, but that was way before the fearless artist that was just like on my own personal account.

Robert Bosworth: Mm-hmm.

Michelle Lynne: So, I don’t know, I was kinda like picking up these pieces all along the way. Then you start learning about, you know, moved to Europe, didn’t have an income. Okay, what am I gonna do? Teach piano, like I was already teaching in Montreal. So a lot of that portfolio stuff just comes from necessity. Like, you gotta pick up. I, I always knew like, okay, “I’m gonna accompany this guy. I’m gonna teach these students, I’m gonna piece together an income over the months, we can pay the bills.” Um, and I was doing that already in Montreal, playing for anybody who needed a, an accompanist pianist, that kind of thing. And I think that also my conservative farmer, hardworking background. I come from Alberta and so I really think that has played a key in like hard work, grit, perseverance. Like I’ve watched my parents, my parents are good, solid people who like work really hard and I’ve, I’ve watched that my whole life. So there’s, I think part like you just learn, like you gotta find a way, you know, like if your truck is stuck in the mud or the snow at 2:00 AM like you just get, you pull her out and I don’t know. Something about that I really feel comes from my ancestry. So all of those things together kind of started, and then I started taking the coaching seriously with, you know, TFA starting, and then I started writing songs and taking, singing more seriously, getting lessons and, I don’t know, piecing it together and, and finding what gives me energy and what, what lights me up.

Robert Bosworth: Talk more about the singing, because I feel like most of your Instagram presence, at least in my awareness, is through people knowing you as a pianist. And that’s how…

Michelle Lynne: Yeah, it is.

Robert Bosworth: …to know you. But…

Michelle Lynne: …it’s…

Robert Bosworth: …in…

Michelle Lynne: …that’s probably a problem.

Robert Bosworth: …at some point I, or maybe I was looking, uh, as I do sometimes the people I follow on Instagram, I said, “Oh, I wonder what they have on Spotify or wherever.” And I searched for you and I found, “oh, here’s an album.” And I clicked on it and all of a sudden you were singing. And I was like, “Whoa, what? Wait a minute. That’s different. Is this the same Michelle Lynne person?” Uh, so. I just feel like talk, talk a bit more about, um, what got you into the songwriting specifically aspect of it, because I do these fun little songs that are, you know, throwaway, satirical things, but yours are, I would call legit songs, if that makes sense.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah, thanks. Actually, most people who find my songs are like, “wait, what? We had no idea.” Which is not a great sign of my marketing branding. But no, I haven’t…

Robert Bosworth: They’re wonderful.

Michelle Lynne: I, well, my album’s actually finally coming out, so I, they will be out much further than they’re currently hopefully.

Robert Bosworth: All right.

Michelle Lynne: Um, songwriting. I think that also comes from church stuff, church life. The worship team that we led, um, there was, uh, yeah, you come up with new songs together as a team and then people would start saying like, “oh, you know, like, this is something you should probably pursue.” Then I, during COVID, actually, I took a songwriting course with a guy in the States and, um. That was very informative and I really liked it. And then I was taking private singing lessons and I was talking about that with my coach, talking about like writing lyrics. So this love comes from my country music upbringing, right? Like my dad, uh, drummer, singer, uh, for his jamboree band. And I grew up singing country songs and singing in the truck, uh, on the weekends and stuff and going to country music, jamborees. And so this love of singing has always been part of my life. And so writing lyrics is very interesting to me. ‘Cause I grew up singing all these country songs to draw about storytelling.

Robert Bosworth: Mm-hmm.

Michelle Lynne: Um, I took this songwriting course and just talking about how to craft lyrics. I read a few books and I don’t know, I love the metaphor language. I love the poetry language. A lot of my metaphors come from the Bible. I went through, uh, something pretty traumatic in 2020, so I was kind of starting to write. Through that music was my way of processing. It was my way of, I mean, at some point I was like, there were no words anymore. I would just sit at the piano and cry and, and you know, like,

Robert Bosworth: No.

Michelle Lynne: …a combination of like that, um, church leading worship and then 2020 season and then it’s like, okay, I wanted, I wanna release these. And, um, yeah, I hope I know that there’s more, I, I need to create some more time in my schedule for it.

Robert Bosworth: Well, I love them. I think they’re great and I feel like you can definitely tell that they are moved by personal experience. Um, and at the same time, I mean, I’ve, I also had a, a traumatic thing in 2021. That’s what that was. Um, and only recently, like in the last several months, I’ve also wondered about like, “Oh, I kind of have a random song idea for thing.” But at the same time, I feel like the, it’s so silly and counterintuitive to what, you and I preach online all the time, to not be your own self critic as you create. Um, ’cause I…

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Robert Bosworth: …to flesh out the idea for a song based on that thing or inspired by that thing, but at the same time, I’m already like, “is this so corny? Is it, uh, is it hokey? Does anybody, is anybody gonna care? And what’s the point of all of it?” So I feel, I feel, I don’t know, I don’t even know why all that comes to mind, but I feel like it’s, is, um, I’m inspired to continue to flesh it out if for no other reason, just as it’s a cathartic thing for myself. Um, like you said, with crafting lyrics and crafting, you know, this is some point where there’s no words left for…

Michelle Lynne: Exactly.

Robert Bosworth: …experiences.

Michelle Lynne: And you know, my, my producer and my vocal coach really helped me out of that perfectionism state. Like my producer was a friend of mine, August Green, actually just saw him last week in Portugal. And he came over and it was just kinda like a god thing. Like he dropped into my life, uh, ’cause I knew his partner. And then she was like, “You know, my partner’s a producer, right?” And I was kind of looking for like, I didn’t even know anything about song production. Zero. And so I thought I had to come with this kind of finished product. And so he showed up and he wanted piano lessons. And he was like, “Hey, show me some of your songs.” And I’m like, “No, I can’t. Like I’ve got like a half a verse here and a chorus here.” He’s like, “No, just like, let me hear it.” So I showed him a couple small things, but it took him a while to convince me. Like I was not willing to really show this. And then he is like, “This is great. Like we can do something with this.” And then once I did kind of a. Basic demo, then I understood you bring that into the studio and he starts putting like the, the production together. And I’m like, “Oh, whoa. This is nothing like what I knew from my classical training. This is very, very different.” And my vocal coach was so encouraging to me and really walking me through that season of my life and, um, giving me lots of resources and lots of inspiration and lots of things and like believing for a better future. And like this current state, This is how we have, you know, for me it was like, okay, this is a way that I can express, but I don’you know, music is healing. t even, like, as you said, there’s no words left. Um, so that’s really what helped me was those two people.

Robert Bosworth: Those things that you were being shunned by, uh, the producer that were so different from what you learned in the classical world, have you found that you’ve been able to apply whatever those are back in your classical music making when you do it,

Michelle Lynne: I mean,

Robert Bosworth: …they are? Or is it more specific…

Michelle Lynne: I…

Robert Bosworth: …things like sound mixing and stuff like…

Michelle Lynne: Well, I would watch him like add notes in or like, or like, “Oh, he played a wrong note and he would just take his mouth and drag the note down.” I’m like, “Can we do that all the time?” Like, you know, or like, uh,

Robert Bosworth: …in real…

Michelle Lynne: …um,

Robert Bosworth: …Yes.

Michelle Lynne: …yeah, exactly. Or I think the process of creation was so fascinating ’cause he would add like a different drum beat or he would add this synthesizer, this pad or whatever, and it would be like, “Oh, that’s cool. Like, we’re going for a vibe, we’re going for a feeling.” I think in my mind, the classical, you know, I just finished editing my classical pieces for the album. My album’s a combo of like these songs and true classical piano playing, right? So I was talking to my editor today and it’s like, “Okay, I need you to swap out this bar for this bar,” but he can’t take his mouse and drag down the pitch. He has to like cut and paste from somewhere where I did play it correctly. Right? So it’s a different process. But August made me feel so safe and like took all this pressure off of me and. Even last week, he was so encouraging. He’s like, “Look how far you’ve come. Like you’re, you’re doing the thing.” And it’s hard for me to kind of say that or receive that, which has made me thinking about like, when you’re, I dunno if somebody sent this, you know, that Instagram thing going around, it’s like you don’t realize you’re making progress. ‘Cause you, you keep setting the bar higher for yourself.

Robert Bosworth: Mm-hmm.

Michelle Lynne: And so, you know, this kind of like, never. Yeah. When have we arrived? What is, what is success? When do, when do we feel like I’m in my purpose, I’m living my purpose, things are good. Like, that’s kind of something I’m working on recently just to be like, “Hey, things are going really well and I just wanna enjoy this season and, and keep working towards what I believe I’m called to do. Instead of being like, ‘Oh no, am I ever gonna figure it out? Am I ever gonna get it? What is, you know, what am I trying to do? And I’m, I feel lost and stuck.’” And that was a narrative I had for so long. It’s hard to switch your mindset into being like, “wait, like I, I over, if you’re talking about things I overcame,”

Robert Bosworth: Mm-hmm.

Michelle Lynne: “…but it’s like I gotta remind myself like, no, we’re good. We’re good. Self stop, stop worrying.”

Robert Bosworth: Well, that just means you care, right? No.

Michelle Lynne: Yes.

Robert Bosworth: I mean, that’s the cliché.

Michelle Lynne: Yes, and I, I thought about that too, like, look how much you care about this, that you’re, you get worked up, but it’s like, just relax, like do your thing.

Robert Bosworth: Yeah. Well, and I, I liked earlier what you said about, um, the times when you can really… probably feeding into this are the reminders when, “no, I feel like my energy is, my energy is really lit up by this specific situation or being around people.” And maybe that’s something that can remind you as well, of you are like, “No, I’m in the, I’m doing the right thing. Things are fine.”

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Robert Bosworth: “Yeah.”

Michelle Lynne: Waking up with that sense of purpose. Yeah.

Robert Bosworth: ‘Cause the sense of purpose is also something, I know you talk with your clients a lot, about on the Fearless Mastermind and I’m curious, uh, and feeling safe. I’m curious if there was one thing, is there one specific, um, aspect of why people tend to not feel safe? that’s either that you’ve just heard coming at you for so long, that is, you know, I, I know a lot of like self-help things say, “well, if you can avoid. X, y if you know that X, Y, Z is happening because of X, Y, Z, then just avoid the second X, Y, Z so that you’re not exposed to it in the first place.” And I’m wondering if the thing that’s out there making everybody feel unsafe, myself included sometimes has been specifically identifiable thing. More times than not, or if it’s, like you said, we all start with, as children this kind of reckless abandon. I mean, I have two toddlers now and there is reckless abandon.

Michelle Lynne: Yes. And isn’t it beautiful?

Robert Bosworth: ‘Cause they’re, they’re half of them is from me and I’m reckless abandon personified. But part of it is ’cause they’re toddlers too. And it’s terrifying. But at the same time, it is. A good reminder. ‘Cause they don’t care if they’re running around completely naked and fall down and hit their face if…

Michelle Lynne: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Robert Bosworth: …they don’t know… just don’t know yet. And, um,

Michelle Lynne: Yeah. The innocence is there.

Robert Bosworth: …what is it, what is it that we encounter that all of a sudden makes us not feel safe anymore in terms of…

Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm.

Robert Bosworth: …you know, taking risks on stage or exploring a lyric or any of that that you’ve mentioned?

Michelle Lynne: Yeah, a few things come to mind. I mean, I think in general people can tend to wear masks, so we’re trying to prove something or be important.

Robert Bosworth: Yeah.

Michelle Lynne: Or list our accomplishments or the res, you know, what’s really toxic in the classical music industry is that our bios are all the accomplishments.

Robert Bosworth: Yeah.

Michelle Lynne: I studied here. I worked with this teacher. I started at four years old. Look how good I am. Look at that. I’m better than you. I won these competitions, I did this. I, I’ve all, even the fact of competitions, you know, it was so interesting. I, uh, subbed for my colleague’s pop class. I te I taught entrepreneurship for classical musicians, and he asked me to step in for the pop kids. And I, I mentioned to them my background. Uh, somehow competitions came up and they were like, “but what, what do you mean? Like, what do you compete about?” And I just stared at them and they stared at me and I was like, “Oh, this is a different, this is a different world that these, these musicians had no concept of what a competition would be like.”

Robert Bosworth: Really.

Michelle Lynne: Isn’t that interesting for us as classical musicians who grow up? It’s like, “well, we all play the same piece and see, you can play it faster and better with no mistakes,” you know?

Robert Bosworth: Whose whose? Mozart is more correct, please.

Michelle Lynne: Correct.

Robert Bosworth: Yeah.

Michelle Lynne: So I was once part of a mastermind before we started the Fearless Artist. And I remembered in the introduction they said, “This is not a place to brag or talk about your accomplishments. This is a place to kind of, you know, work through.” And I was so shocked that they would even say that. I’m like, “well, who’s coming in here all pompous and trying to be, you know, prove themselves?” And then I was naive because I, as I’ve coached musicians, you hear about people who go to festivals and everybody just kind of wants, you know, like the, that that image that we wanna give across. So in terms of being safe, it’s not that we don’t want people to own their accomplishments and to say like, “I’ve done cool stuff and we were just talking about that. Like, things are going well and you’re, you’re doing cool things and important things.” And yeah, if you, if you want a competition, like, yeah, we wanna know, right? It’s not that, but it is this sense of, um, trying to be better than everyone else or something that I think. In TFA anyway, we’re really creating a community that’s safe and and open in that way.

Robert Bosworth: Mm-hmm. I like that. And I feel like one thing that you’ve spoken to on that in the past, somewhere else that I’ve heard you say. Either personally or on a broadcast somewhere has been, what is it? It’s a lot more eloquent than how I can think of it, but it’s, there are no, no audience, like, audience size doesn’t matter either.

Michelle Lynne: Yeah,

Robert Bosworth: …it…

Michelle Lynne: …that’s a big one.

Robert Bosworth: …it could be that you just play for five people in a retirement home, whether they’re paying you or not. Uh, that’s its own topic. Um, it could be, uh, you know, thousands upon thousands of people in the biggest stadium that’s ever existed. And it’s still, I think a lot of myself included, have encountered, you know, “well, this, uh, it’s not really gonna matter ’cause there are only gonna be six people there,” or “no one’s…”

Michelle Lynne: Yeah.

Robert Bosworth: “…Why do I even bother?” I feel like that that realization that it doesn’t matter helps break down that image that we all want to create for ourselves in the classical world of like, “well, this is classical music and it doesn’t deserve to be heard by audiences fewer than 5,000 or something ridiculous,”

Michelle Lynne: Yeah. Yeah.

Robert Bosworth: …you know?

Michelle Lynne: I think when I started viewing things through the lens of impact versus quantity, that changed a lot for me. Who can I make the most impact on? Okay. That question alone gave me the confidence in quitting my two faculty positions, you know? Maybe it’s like, “oh, but that’s the authority, that’s the prestige. Look, you can say that you’re, you’ve got this position, you’re really gonna just, you’re gonna let that go.” It’s like, “well, I can reach way more people through this podcast, my coaching and making the impact, and I see where the fruit is. So yes, I know where to invest my energy.” Um, and I’ve had so many people share beautiful moments with me of the one grandma who comes up and says, “you know, I played that Nocturne when I was young. Thank you so much.” Tears in the eyes from audience members. It doesn’t matter, like you said, five people in the room, but they’re, if they, if there’s impact there, why are we doing this? Why are we spending hours slaving our instruments to share? It’s not supposed to be this arrogant, like, “look how good I am” thing. It’s about creating something that helps people connect. It comes back to it earlier in our conversation. Music is for healing. Music is for connection. It’s to be able to say something when there are no words to say. And to make people feel things and to reach people in a way that you might not be able to reach ’em through cultures. You can play through all sorts of different backgrounds, cultures, generations, music reaches people, and that’s what we’re trying to do as artists. 

Robert Bosworth: Yeah. Is there one way you can encourage people to remember that when they get too wrapped up in like, specifically people who are younger in their journeys, like undergrads or grad school or even high schoolers that just haven’t gone through those experiences yet to believe it for themselves, but that, I work in a college setting primarily. I try to impart similar beliefs onto these 18 to 24 year olds of, “no, no, no, this matters every time. It doesn’t matter.”

Michelle Lynne: Yep.

Robert Bosworth: Just if it’s a sold out crowd and, you know, they, they just usually haven’t had that much experience the people come up to them after the teary grandmas or whatever it is. Uh. I don’t know. I wonder, in your position as a coach and educator, have you found a successful way to really get that message through to people earlier in their careers? Or is it just something that you have to kind of experience in order to really get it?

Michelle Lynne: I mean, I would be surprised if an 18-year-old hadn’t had at least one person come up to them after a performance and say something that was meaningful. So even if it’s just one time that somebody walked up to you at, at the old folks home, let’s say, and it was like, “Hey, that was beautiful.” Or at a wedding. I mean, I remember, I remember playing a wedding. I was probably eight years old. I was playing some background music. Nobody was really listening. People were standing around talking and this one old man came and like put his hand on my shoulder and bent down and said something in my ear. I was of course, terrified because this guy came so close to me suddenly while I was playing the piano. But I remember he said something like, “This is beautiful. Thank you.”

Robert Bosworth: Hmm.

Michelle Lynne: And that stuck with me even as a small child. So I know if anybody is pursuing music at a college level, it’s because somewhere along the way somebody said, “Hey, you’re good at this.” So, or, or like, “what you’re doing is good.” Um, it, it’s meaningful. I mean, when I say that. So remember any single time that somebody thanked you for your music.

Robert Bosworth: Yeah.

Michelle Lynne: That’s number one. Second of all, second thing comes to mind is he who is faithful in the small things will be faithful with the big things. So if you want the sold out crowds, then you better know how to walk on stage with your head high and you’re gonna give a great performance and you’re gonna make people in the room excited that you’re on stage. And you can’t do that unless you have failed for a much smaller group and figured out what doesn’t work and how you’re gonna make it better next time. So, I mean, for me, I’m believing for bigger crowds. Like my biggest concert’s gonna be 1,500 people next month, and I’m ready for that because I’ve done it like, I don’t know. 500 times now for crowds of 200. And then I’ve played for 14 people too. So like, I’m not saying it’s always been this huge thing of like I have done that. You try and sell the concert out. There are 14 people. Even the worst story ever happened. This sweet lady, she’s like super supportive. One of my biggest supporters and only 14 people came to, uh, Opus 16 in this small little village. It was like, I don’t know, eight years ago when we first started. And I walk up to introduce the program and she goes, “Oh Michelle, this is ridiculous.” Because she felt so bad for me that there were only 14 people there. And meanwhile, I’m trying to like present my first piece and I was just like, “Now is not the time. Now is not the time.” But thank you, thank you that you care that no one’s here. But also I gotta play now, so please don’t say that. ‘Cause now I’m really embarrassed.

Robert Bosworth: Yeah. That’s happened to me as well. When, when one of the organizers for something comes up to you right before, and it’s just like,

Michelle Lynne: Right before you go out.

Robert Bosworth: …so sorry. There aren’t more people. And you’re like, “How, what is, am I, how am I supposed to benefit from that?” I, I intentionally, um. I usually don’t like knowing who’s there beforehand. If I play something or even how many people are there, I like walking out and just, I’ll look at the hall, whatever the hall is, and take in the crowd in that moment, just outta curiosity. I try not to let it matter. Like, again, it doesn’t matter. So if I’m peeking out from the thing, “oh, there are only 30 people out there today,” that’s not gonna, I’m not…

Michelle Lynne: It doesn’t help you.

Robert Bosworth: …before performance. And I feel…

Michelle Lynne: No, definitely not.

Robert Bosworth: …least my, my stuff with a lot of college students and their degree recitals is, “oh, are enough people gonna come? Are all my friends gonna come? Are they gonna come? Are they gonna be there?” And yeah, you want that support, go ahead and instill that belief that, you know, it doesn’t matter if, again, the amount of people that come isn’t the point. Um, it’s, it’s the experience they have.

Michelle Lynne: I think integrity means that you show up and you give everything you have to give no matter who’s in the room.